Windwalker (DPS): a flurry of tender fisting. - Page 25

Littch · 11/23/12, 5:05 AM

Any idea if there is any spreadsheets/programs out there at the moment to calculate the haste cap due to your current mastery, i know we probably wont able to hit it yet, im just trying to get everything ready before hand.

Also can anybody recommend a working character builder, much like chardev for monks? want to try and work out to see if tier is worth vs full off pieces. since our tier has tons of crit and all off pieces have like tons of haste

fr0d0b0ls0n · 11/24/12, 3:51 AM

No character builder works for monks yet, but you can use simulationcraft without that, is just harder.

With the next patch seems that crit and haste will be almost equal, so the haste cap will be no problem, and the tier will be worth it (even if the dps gain is not great, is still BIS). The off piece being the Garalon gloves probably.

Moozhe · 11/26/12, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Littch

Also can anybody recommend a working character builder, much like chardev for monks? want to try and work out to see if tier is worth vs full off pieces. since our tier has tons of crit and all off pieces have like tons of haste

The only tool that I've found which works is askmrrobot.com. You can choose Export -> SimulationCraft File, and copy the gear listing into SimCraft.

Ruga · 11/27/12, 2:55 AM

Seems like the Ascension change did not make it into the final PatchNotes either.
I really hope this is still just an oversight.

Eeinx · 11/27/12, 3:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hinalover

There is talk over on the MMO-C forums that FoF seems to have been fixed on the PTR. Doesn't seem to have hit live servers but people are noticing 5 ticks while on live they are getting 4 ticks.

Live - http://i.imgur.com/EFzio.jpg

PTR - http://i.imgur.com/1lE5C.jpg

PTR Log - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g.../spell/117418/

This is fantastic news;

I'm testing it now on PTR and i'll update the SimC module to reflect the fix once i've verified things myself.

Ascension is still on PTR, so i imagine that will be staying. I'm also currently working on implementing the new power strikes which i'm interested in testing against ascension (still will be a loss for windwalker i'm betting)

EDIT:

Testing shows it is fixed; will always get 5 ticks and channel duration scales with haste. I'll update it in the sim to reflect this. Thanks for the updates!

Willfred · 11/27/12, 4:48 AM

Originally Posted by fr0d0b0ls0n

No character builder works for monks yet, but you can use simulationcraft without that, is just harder.

With the next patch seems that crit and haste will be almost equal, so the haste cap will be no problem, and the tier will be worth it (even if the dps gain is not great, is still BIS). The off piece being the Garalon gloves probably.

I don't think with the Ascension buffs going live (I'm not saying that they are, but if they do) that you'll need to get your 4set. Getting 4 set without the gloves forces you in taking up 2 items with a lot of (useless) mastery on it. Aside from that you'll get the 5 seconds off EB CD, which isn't really necessary seeing as the new Ascension will probably make it so that you'll hardly find yourself energy starved.
If FoF really is fixed tomorrow on live, 2 set could be an option. 2 set in the form of Shoulders/Gloves or Shoulders/Legs. Depending on whichever stat comes out on top: crit or haste.

Just my two cents, it's solely a speculation, I'm sorry.

Eeinx · 11/27/12, 5:38 AM

Assuming ascension does go live; here is my findings so far. I don't have alot of time to sim everything right now and you guys will likely have to wait till simc release to get to running numbers as i'm not 100% done with code cleanup and i've got some silly parameters to get it showing right.

Power Strikes
Haste > Crit

Ascension
Crit [1.36] > Haste [1.29] (at 7589 haste from gear)

FoF is still 2.5% DPS increase w/ 2pc.

There is likely a breakpoint where the sim values haste over the gear. The sim i'm running is with someone at 499 ilvl running high haste dual wield with 2pc and not fully optimized.

EDIT:

BiS (optimized for crit right now) says haste>crit but it only has 3691 haste.

My guess is somewhere around 7k haste crit becomes the priority; further simming with have to be done to determine this. But i'm confident crit will overtake haste around that point.

The estimated breakpoint remains unknown.

Players ignoring FoF for whatever reason should stack haste over crit.

Mastery is still terrible.

jaydsterc2 · 11/27/12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Eeinx

My guess is somewhere around 7k haste crit becomes the priority; further simming with have to be done to determine this. But i'm confident crit will overtake haste around that point.

If we don't get an extra tick on FoF from haste then I can't see it being valued over crit past 7k or maybe even 6k. I can't see us being able to keep from energy capping with Ascension and 2pc if you use FoF every 20 sec.

Ruga · 11/27/12, 11:49 AM

Has anyone given the Dancing Steel move to the RPPM system a look?
I've heard different things from people - some say that we'll keep running 2x Dancing Steel on our weapons, some say we'll be using 1xDS 1xWindsong. Could anyone clarify on the subject?

Eeinx · 11/27/12, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by jaydsterc2

If we don't get an extra tick on FoF from haste then I can't see it being valued over crit past 7k or maybe even 6k. I can't see us being able to keep from energy capping with Ascension and 2pc if you use FoF every 20 sec.

This is precisely the case.

The idea is to get FoF out quickly. The amount of damage it does for 3 chi vs bok's 2 chi is well worth it in certain scenarios.

We can likely do some major profile updates with some ideas i've had to increase effeciency. I'll speak with gahddo about some changes to make sure i'm not doing redundant testing.

Originally Posted by Ruga

Has anyone given the Dancing Steel move to the RPPM system a look?
I've heard different things from people - some say that we'll keep running 2x Dancing Steel on our weapons, some say we'll be using 1xDS 1xWindsong. Could anyone clarify on the subject?

I'm running Dancing Steel + windsong because i'm cheap (and prefer it for brewmaster); but i'll check the actual PPM on some fights quickly and make an edit.

EDIT: I'm getting 45-55% uptime on dancing steel on average, with similar uptime from windsong.

With that much uptime, i personally would say its safe to say that DS + Windsong would probably win out, due to windsong being able to stack on top of dancing steel. Since dancing steel never doubles up on itself this is a very good question and can likely require further simming to determine its value. If dual DS can keep uptime around 75% or higher, then thats a different story.

An example on buff distribution here:
http://i.imgur.com/WbBB9.png

Please note that this is tanking, so my mileage my vary in comparison to a DPS specs uptime.

jaydsterc2 · 11/27/12, 2:21 PM

I haven't seen the new 5.1 Item upgrades talked about much in here. So what's our biggest priority upgrade going to be? I'm assuming a weapon will be first but after that?

Eeinx · 11/27/12, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by jaydsterc2

I haven't seen the new 5.1 Item upgrades talked about much in here. So what's our biggest priority upgrade going to be? I'm assuming a weapon will be first but after that?

Sha Weapons, then likely relic of xuen or any heroic elite gear. But... such a beautiful trinket.

Alot of what may be talked about in here is already fully upgraded BiS gear.

We've still yet to determine the actual BiS, but i'm not sure if anyone is tasked with doing something like that. Gahddo is the only one i'm aware of that really ironing out the windwalker profile.

fr0d0b0ls0n · 11/27/12, 5:03 PM

Any weapon you are using as main hand is the best dps increase, but you have to consider how long it will last for you until you replace it. I'll update first my Garakal 502 even if it's not BIS, because gives me more than 4x the dps increase of upgrading any other piece.

Nahela · 11/27/12, 5:07 PM

It's hard to tell if it's a display error, but on the assumption it's not: You'll need to switch stances to get the 10% speed buff to apply. In our case this means you'll need to swap to a MW or BM spec, unless there's a way to turn off our stance that I'm not aware of.

Minor, but don't miss out!

Mihir · 11/27/12, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Eeinx

Sha Weapons, then likely relic of xuen or any heroic elite gear. But... such a beautiful trinket.

Alot of what may be talked about in here is already fully upgraded BiS gear.

We've still yet to determine the actual BiS, but i'm not sure if anyone is tasked with doing something like that. Gahddo is the only one i'm aware of that really ironing out the windwalker profile.

Heroic Elegon trinket should be a good contender as wel.