My mistake, I meant x2 on that second jab immediately preceding FoF. Otherwise, you'd be capping energy about halfway thru your FoF cast.

Hoping to provide some usefull info on delaying RSK versus delaying FoF I did some math with the damage multipliers for each ability. I don't know if it's all correct so please check it.

Ability damage:

ability	modifier	cd (sec)
Rising Sun Kick	14.4	8
Blackout Kick	9.6
Jab	1.5
Fists of Fury	5*7.5	20
Auto attack	1.48	1

Tiger strikes: when this happens you get 50% auto attack haste for the next 4 melee hits, which each give an extra attack, meaning you do 4 melee hits in the time you normally would have done 2 granting you a total of 6 extra attacks. 8% chance on 6 extra autoattacks: 0.08 * 6 = 0.48 making auto attack's multiplier 1.48

FoF vs BoK:
FoF: 5 * 7.5 = 30
BoK: 9.6 * 1.5 = 14.4
14.4 + 4 * 1.48 = 20.32

If you delay RSK you can instead do BoK with the chi. for example, if during a fight you delay RSK 8 times for 1 second, you can instead do 1 more BoK with the 2 chi:
RSK per sec vs BoK:
14.4 - 9.6 = 4.8
4.8 / 8 = 0.6 loss

Same for FoF:
FoF per sec vs BoK:
30 - 20.32 = 9.68
9.68 / 20 = 0.484 loss

This shows that it's better to delay FoF 1 second than to delay RSK 1 second. In 'the real world' though, choices you have to make are probably different:

Scenario 1: 5 chi, 2 sec until RSK, FoF off cd:
FoF (delay RSK 2 sec): 2 * 0.6 = 1.2 loss
RSK (delay FoF 3 sec): 3 * 0.484 = 1.452 loss

Scenario 2: 3 chi, 2 sec until RSK, FoF off cd:
FoF (delay RSK 3 sec): 3 * 0.6 = 1.8 loss (you have to jab after FoF)
RSK (delay FoF 3 sec): 3 * 0.484 = 1.452 loss (jab in the 2 sec wait till RSK)

Scenario 3: 3 chi, 3 sec until RSK, FoF off cd:
FoF (delay RSK 2 sec): 2 * 0.6 = 1.2 loss (you have to jab after FoF)
RSK (delay FoF 4 sec): 4 * 0.484 = 1.936 loss (jab in the 3 sec wait till RSK)

So:
3 chi: RSK cd < 2.32 sec -> wait for RSK
5 chi: RSK cd < 1.77 sec -> wait for RSK

Ofcourse you would have a certain amount of haste, I dont think that matters for most of these calculations because everthing gets changed equally. I do know it changes the cd left on RSK times. I think if you have 10% haste, meaning FoF takes 3.6 seconds, you can also take 10% off of the RSK delay times:
3 chi: RSK cd < 2.09 sec -> wait for RSK
5 chi: RSK cd < 1.59 sec -> wait for RSK

These are not really precize numbers, but rather indications.

I hope someone can find the will to check this all against any mistakes / wrong assumptions I made

I think this is the math that needs to be done, Eyedore; and I think you're right in broad strokes. One nitpick though: Each Tiger Strikes is not a guaranteed 6 extra attacks since the buff might already be active. Also bear in mind it has a higher chance to proc per second while active. This is assuming the buff can refresh itself. Even if it can't, the 1.48 modifier to autoattacks is a bit off.

mmm, you are right about that. Would this solve it then:

for every tiger strikes hit there is an 8% chance that you get a new tiger strikes, overwriting the old one. I'm assuming the extra attack cannot proc TS because I think I read somewhere a while back in a blue post that they are 'yellow hits' (they show as yellow in my scrolling battle text as well).

If a new TS procs on the 1st TS hit, the first TS's usefulness is only 25%
0.08*-0.75*6 = -0.36
on 2nd hit:
0.08*-0.50*6 = -0.24
on 3rd hit:
0.08*-0.25*6 = -0.12
totals: -0.72
6 - 0.72 = 5.28

making the auto attack modifier: 1 + 0.08 * 5.28 = 1.4224

I also checked some logs, and on some fights I have had TS do as much as 35% of the melee damage (gara'jal and protectors), and this is of course without the haste buff, because that will only show as more melee hits. So i think a multiplier of 1.42 is probably not far off.

edit: here someone quoted a blue in the comments: Tiger Strikes - Spell - World of Warcraft
unfortunately the link to the original he gave doesn't work anymore

Actually Crit is right under Haste in early T14 levels. As you progress further into heroics and start maxing out your BiS list, the stat weight of Crit will exceed Haste in the same fashion that Haste exceeds Crit currently.

But I agree, Fists of Fury seems more like a PvP ability...never heard of a melee DPS channeling anything to sustain competitive DPS. It's just plain silly.

Wouldn't really call it a pvp ability.

It's terribly unreliable in pvp for anything other than the stun. You will almost never be able to hit only 1 person with the full damage (and if you hit more than 1 person it's just wasted damage and you should cancel the channel. I'd say you'll use FoF only for the stun, cancelling the channel after the 1st or 2nd tick about 80% of the time in 3v3).

On the other hand it's really good for control because you can spin around in 360 degrees to stun everything. Just an awkward ability. Wish they could rework it to either do full damage to all targets(treating it like a true aoe) and/or possibly allowing you to move while channeling it and/or allow your autoattacks to continue while channeling so you don't feel like you're actually LOSING dps if you happen to hit 2 or more targets in pvp. Doing a bit of damage to an offtarget is most of the time absolutely wasted damage in pvp, in effect halving your damage output on the main target.

The glyph gives FoF extra utility in pvp, especially due to Swift Reflexes.
Glyphed FoF is a direct counter to Bladestorm.

+1, You know you have this thing called... Grapple Weapon, now that is a direct counter to bladestorm.

No kidding. My larger point is that Glyphed FoF provides additional utility and potential damage against stun-immune/DR'ed targets (Bladestorming Warrior, Desecrated Ground DK, anyone dumb enough to trinket Leg Sweep) and is surrounded by really mediocre glyph alternatives.

You will be using Glyph of Sparring like 90% of the time (only using FoF glyph vs double melee). But that's besides the point, we weren't talking about FoF glyphs - we were talking about how FoF really isn't a good pvp ability outside of the actual stun, making the ability feel clunky (since you'll be canceling it on the first tick most of the time.) FoF is clunky and badly designed both for pvp and pve.

At its inception, FoF seems rather strange, but honestly, as I've played my monk since early beta, I've found its place as just a way to passively pool energy - simply more fun of a way than sitting and doing nothing. As stated earlier in the thread, it will set the great monks apart from the good monks in how it is used. Sure, you can get top parses without it - but keep in mind that most raids are bringing in MW or BrM rather than WW for various reasons. And, yes, with the buff to Ascension, there's been less reason to actually pool energy due to how quickly it is returned now and the fact that it "pools" between phases or add spawns (depending on the fight). Nevertheless, it still serves to break up the rotation and keep us on our toes.

Looks to me like the numbers you've punched out (get it? Get it?) are reasonable to me (assuming of course EB is not used and is on CD, and RSK is on CD). But, correct me if I read this wrong: a person can theoretically do a single jab, and then FoF... or a single jab, wait 1-2 seconds, and then FoF. That would mean there's almost no "wrong" time to use FoF, other than when EB has just been used (given that the 10 en/sec modifier would mean more energy loss, thereby changing numbers, etc.)

I personally chose to look at it another way to check your numbers. I'm going to steal your numbers because mine are roughly the same. I rounded a few up for ease of interpretation, so my margin of error will be higher.

1 FoF cast = 3.61sec, I regen at 12.75 energy/second
During that FoF, I regen just over 46 energy.
If I have 89 energy when I begin casting FoF, I will cap <1 second into the cast. So that's 2.61 seconds of regen, or around 33.28 energy "wasted" (provided I Jab or Expel Harm immediately after the cast - it would be a loss if RSK came off of CD at the end or I chose to use BoK instead, as that would put me at over 40 energy).

That's not even a full Jab (and therefore, not a full RSK or BoK) lost, but I'm not sure how to interpret past that. I'd like to think it means no damage lost from capping during FoF if one is under 90 energy.

That being said, I still feel like it's more useful in my rotation between EBs. Just makes things "smoother."