Windwalker (DPS): a flurry of tender fisting. - Page 7

Stu · 08/02/12, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Maikro

Ok good, I thought I had missed something huge. I guess it will be similar to Frost DK, where DW is ahead but 2H is still viable. Thanks.

I'm also curious if there are any recent numbers on whether or not FoF should be used for ST, and if not, at how many targets does it become worthwhile, if any, considering that the damage is split between all targets. Whenever I use it (always at very low energy so I don't cap), I feel like the amount of damage it is doing is kind of low for 3 Chi.

Currently the only situation that FoF is remotely useful is when an AoE stun is called for. it is so insignificant in single target it's better to just ignore it entirely. In the logs i've combed and in practical use myself i've seen little to no effect on overall dps when using FoF on cooldown. Use your chi in better ways!

gahddo · 08/02/12, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stu

Currently the only situation that FoF is remotely useful is when an AoE stun is called for. it is so insignificant in single target it's better to just ignore it entirely. In the logs i've combed and in practical use myself i've seen little to no effect on overall dps when using FoF on cooldown. Use your chi in better ways!

I have a monk in a decent amount of normal gear (and a few pieces of heroic) with conquest pvp gear filler. Fully reforged, gemmed, enchanted, optimized. Currently from the sustained (10 minute) tests I've done on raiding dummy targets: Unbuffed, Using FoF in a single target rotation nets about a ~950 dps loss in best cases, higher in worst case. (uptime on tiger brew is generally higher for not using fof and thus more subject to rng)

The more targets FoF hits the more dps it should do, because each hit inherits your crit chance. However, there is no point I can see where using it in the aoe rotation is a gain.

Also, I hope they don't add it back in. WW already has a decent amount of timers/buffs to watch without it, and the rotation including FoF is a lot more difficult. You have to queue it based around RSK not coming off cd during the cast and tiger palm debuff not dropping during it.

Tsuki Ko · 08/06/12, 11:27 AM

A pre-raid gearset based on the stat weights mentioned earlier. I'll start the T14 & HT14 ones if no one have them ready yet.

Windwalker pre-raid gearset - Pastebin.com

Eeinx · 08/06/12, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tsuki Ko

A pre-raid gearset based on the stat weights mentioned earlier. I'll start the T14 & HT14 ones if no one have them ready yet.

Windwalker pre-raid gearset - Pastebin.com

Ghaddo is one step ahead of you on the T14/T14H
This pre-raid gearset will definitely help though. I'll plug it in

Oh and its also 2H; I definitely need more testing to make sure 2h is functioning properly, thanks again.

EDIT:
take that back, he has a preraid version too. I'll compare for funsies when i'm not fixing bugs.

Maikro · 08/06/12, 3:08 PM

Compiled this list of epic gear for myself and my fellow monk rerolls in my guild. Thought some people here may get some use out of it as well. Let me know if you know where some of these "Unknown" items come from!

Not sure if this is better suited for another thread, but if it is, please let me know.

Used the spoiler tag so it wouldn't annihilate the forum with its length

← Click Here

Tsuki Ko · 08/06/12, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Eeinx

Oh and its also 2H; I definitely need more testing to make sure 2h is functioning properly, thanks again.

I went straight with a 2H assuming that the extra stats would prevail even if slightly. But while working on the other two gearsets and shuffling gear around trying to match exp/hit caps, I ended up finding out that DW is always ahead of 2H - for T14 it was by something like 5k. It doesn't seem to be caused by the higher uptime on Dancing Steel, I simmed with an unenchanted OH and still had a large lead.

Updated for DW: Windwalker pre-raid gearset - Pastebin.com

gahddo · 08/06/12, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tsuki Ko

I went straight with a 2H assuming that the extra stats would prevail even if slightly. But while working on the other two gearsets and shuffling gear around trying to match exp/hit caps, I ended up finding out that DW is always ahead of 2H - for T14 it was by something like 5k. It doesn't seem to be caused by the higher uptime on Dancing Steel, I simmed with an unenchanted OH and still had a large lead.

Updated for DW: Windwalker pre-raid gearset - Pastebin.com

Yes, dw is a large margin ahead of 2h currently. At one point it was highly balanced, and 2h was even ahead slightly, but they never updated the balancing of dw vs 2h with all of the changes they've made since then.

Proof:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - dw
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - 2h

Tsuki Ko · 08/07/12, 3:50 PM

I've always gotten different results, 2H being slightly ahead on boss dummies. I've just taken a couple 10min logs:

DW: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
2H: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

My gear isn't stellar, 4 pieces of PvP gear to cover spots/activate the crit meta with the rest being 463 (including the weapons), exp/hit capped. To avoid skewing the tests I took off both of my trinkets and used the same rotation priority: TP only on mastery procs, EB on CD, TeB on 10 stacks.

That's why I was surprised to see DW so far ahead on simulations.

Guterboyryan · 08/07/12, 10:02 PM

FoF damage was increased by 50%, will prob be worth using again.
Also they over doubled the healing done by expel harm which should over double the damage it does.

Gondlem · 08/08/12, 4:24 AM

The blue post about monk self-healing a while back said that they'd be doubling the healing on expel harm but not touching the damage output. It already hits fairly hard compared to jab so I'd be shocked if they doubled the damage.

Source: [WW MONK] Feedback - Forums - World of Warcraft

The FoF buff is pretty big though. I guess they really want it to be part of the single target rotation.

Maikro · 08/08/12, 12:01 PM

Well, considering they made our T14 2pc a reduction in the cooldown, without making the ability useful, our T14 bonus would be worthless as well.

I'm not super thrilled that it will likely be part of the ST rotation, because I hate the immobility of it especially with how mobile 90% of these fights are. I think they should have just changed the 2pc bonus to something like a chance to proc an additional Tigereye Brew or something along those lines.

It will be nice having something that is actually moderately good for AOE, but considering that the damage is split between all targets, it will likely remain that our AOE damage still falls behind most others.

On a positive note, our single target DPS is quite good at the moment, during raid testing I'm consistently one of the highest melee really only behind Ret Paladins and Enhancement Shaman (60-70k single target in 100% pvp purps).

Guterboyryan · 08/08/12, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gondlem

The blue post about monk self-healing a while back said that they'd be doubling the healing on expel harm but not touching the damage output. It already hits fairly hard compared to jab so I'd be shocked if they doubled the damage.

The scaling went from 3.15 to 7*, but the % of damage done didn't change (actually shows at 0% before and after this patch) so unless they changed the % of damage done it will do more damage. (we cant exatly tell if they changed that % because the tooltip is bugged and says 0 before and after)

So we have to wait and see when the servers come up.

Zen sphere also got a scaling buff but I'm not sure if that only counts towards the healing or the damage as well, the tool tip is again unclear.

gahddo · 08/09/12, 2:28 AM

Originally Posted by Maikro

Well, considering they made our T14 2pc a reduction in the cooldown, without making the ability useful, our T14 bonus would be worthless as well.

I'm not super thrilled that it will likely be part of the ST rotation, because I hate the immobility of it especially with how mobile 90% of these fights are. I think they should have just changed the 2pc bonus to something like a chance to proc an additional Tigereye Brew or something along those lines.

It will be nice having something that is actually moderately good for AOE, but considering that the damage is split between all targets, it will likely remain that our AOE damage still falls behind most others.

On a positive note, our single target DPS is quite good at the moment, during raid testing I'm consistently one of the highest melee really only behind Ret Paladins and Enhancement Shaman (60-70k single target in 100% pvp purps).

The question isn't if the rotation is enjoyable with FoF, because it entirely isn't. The 2pc doesn't fit with the current design of massive cleaving/movement in almost every fight. I'd personally prefer if they made a glyph that removes the stun and allows it to be channeled while moving. It would also be better if it didn't cancel auto attack for the duration. Sadly on the subject of aoe, its more than likely going to still be less than just dumping chi on maintaining RSK/TP and spamming SCK.

Gondlem · 08/09/12, 6:31 AM

Originally Posted by Guterboyryan

The scaling went from 3.15 to 7*, but the % of damage done didn't change (actually shows at 0% before and after this patch) so unless they changed the % of damage done it will do more damage. (we cant exatly tell if they changed that % because the tooltip is bugged and says 0 before and after)

So we have to wait and see when the servers come up.

Zen sphere also got a scaling buff but I'm not sure if that only counts towards the healing or the damage as well, the tool tip is again unclear.

Everything seems to be working as advertised on beta post-patch. Expel Harm now heals for a lot more but hits for half as much as it heals (with no buffs or procs in pvp gear I was getting around a 46k heal and a 23k damage hit), and ZS heals for more but still does very low damage.

Tufft · 08/09/12, 2:45 PM

FoF does very similar damage to BoK now per tick/punch/salvo? It is quiet handy when you reach that slight lack of energy part of the rotation.