Elitist Jerks Mistweaver Healing Compendium

 02/26/13, 7:50 PM #286 Spleener King Hippo     Suzushiirou Blood Elf Monk   Sen'jin Took me a bit of thinking on it, but I realized that you average out the ticks per chi by adding per-tick probabilities until you hit 100, like so: OLD: 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 120 = chi 1/3 of the way through tick 4 = 3.3333... ticks per chi NEW: 15 + 30 + 45 + 60 = 150 = chi 1/6 of the way through tick 4 = 3.16666666... ticks per chi So basically soothing's average chi generation has increased by ~5%. So your overall average per-tick chi generation chance is roughly 31.5% Last edited by Spleener : 02/26/13 at 7:57 PM. Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.
 02/26/13, 8:37 PM #287 Sasazuka Von Kaiser   Akuzasas Tauren Druid   Frostwolf I don't think that's correct. What's the point of adding the probabilities together? In the old model, the probability of one tick generating Chi is independent of another tick's probability. Can you explain why you are adding them together? I'm guessing you are trying to ballpark time to first Chi? Basically confused about your calculations, hope you don't mind explaining it a bit more. EDIT: 0.30^4 = 0.0081 = Probability of generating 4 Chi in 4 ticks 0.3 * 4 = Expected value of number of Chi in 4 ticks? (I think) Last edited by Sasazuka : 02/26/13 at 8:46 PM.
02/27/13, 12:27 AM   #288
Spleener
King Hippo

Blood Elf Monk

Sen'jin
 Originally Posted by Sasazuka I don't think that's correct. What's the point of adding the probabilities together? In the old model, the probability of one tick generating Chi is independent of another tick's probability. Can you explain why you are adding them together? I'm guessing you are trying to ballpark time to first Chi? Basically confused about your calculations, hope you don't mind explaining it a bit more. EDIT: 0.30^4 = 0.0081 = Probability of generating 4 Chi in 4 ticks 0.3 * 4 = Expected value of number of Chi in 4 ticks? (I think)
I'm ballparking the average amount of ticks to get 1 chi. If something has an x% probability to happen per event, you can get the average number of events it takes for that thing to happen via dividing 1/x. The addition logic I did above is just a rearranging of the same math, done in such a way that you can apply it to cases where x isn't constant.

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

 02/27/13, 3:25 AM #289 dracjin Glass Joe   Dracjini Pandaren Monk   Eredar (EU) I simulated the new soothing mist formular (10000000 iterations). Average Chi income for one full sm cast is 2,8343234 Chi. So the chance per tick is 31,492482 % Edit: 1 Chi 317830 3,18% 2 Chi 3409794 34,10% 3 Chi 4249220 42,49% 4 Chi 1688398 16,88% 5 Chi 304848 3,05% 6 Chi 28429 0,28% 7 Chi 1444 0,01% 8 Chi 37 0,00% Last edited by dracjin : 02/27/13 at 3:39 AM.
 02/27/13, 3:46 AM #290 Astrylian Rawr     Celestrylian Night Elf Monk   Stormrage Thinking about it in terms of casts is wrong. The chances don't reset with a new cast. If you channel SM for 3 ticks, none of them proc a chi, then you stop casting... and then a few sec later, cast SM again, its first tick will have a 60% chance to proc it. Rawr!
 02/27/13, 5:52 AM #291 dracjin Glass Joe   Dracjini Pandaren Monk   Eredar (EU) If SM remembers the ticks after one cast (or interrupted cast): Chance per tick rises to 34,02% 1 Chi 144137 1,44% 2 Chi 2516943 25,17% 3 Chi 4509972 45,10% 4 Chi 2288672 22,89% 5 Chi 486058 4,86% 6 Chi 51276 0,51% 7 Chi 2876 0,03% 8 Chi 66 0,00%
 02/27/13, 11:11 AM #292 Spleener King Hippo     Suzushiirou Blood Elf Monk   Sen'jin Yeah, ignore my math up there, 34% is the proper way to ballpark it, and what I'll use in the calculator. So they effectively buffed it back to where it was in the first week of 5.1. On another note, something to consider the viability of is /cancelaura-ing SCK after it gets you your chi/MM proc, since it's cheaper than jab. You'd probably only want to consider this in situations where the direct healing of SCK would be almost entirely overheal. I'll try coding that into the calculator this weekend. Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.
 02/27/13, 1:03 PM #293 Sasazuka Von Kaiser   Akuzasas Tauren Druid   Frostwolf @Astrylian: Is this how it behaves on PTR or are you assuming that SM remembers between casts? Do we get a self-buff tracking this modifier? @Spleener: You mean (slight) nerf? Isn't the chance right now at 35%? Last edited by Sasazuka : 02/27/13 at 1:08 PM.
02/27/13, 1:30 PM   #294
Spleener
King Hippo

Blood Elf Monk

Sen'jin
 Originally Posted by Sasazuka @Astrylian: Is this how it behaves on PTR or are you assuming that SM remembers between casts? Do we get a self-buff tracking this modifier? @Spleener: You mean (slight) nerf? Isn't the chance right now at 35%?
It was 35% when the 5.1 patch went live, but was nerfed to 30% in a hotfix a week or two afterwards. The tooltip hasn't been updated on live servers yet.

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

02/27/13, 3:13 PM   #295
Astrylian
Rawr

Night Elf Monk

Stormrage
 Originally Posted by Sasazuka @Astrylian: Is this how it behaves on PTR or are you assuming that SM remembers between casts? Do we get a self-buff tracking this modifier?
No buff, but this is how GC said it worked, and how testing has shown it works. Fairly easy to just channel until you get 3 non-procs in a row, cancel, then cast 1 tick. It'll proc 60% of the time, which will be very easy to identify as different from 15% if it didn't work that way.

Rawr!

 02/27/13, 4:49 PM #296 Sasazuka Von Kaiser   Akuzasas Tauren Druid   Frostwolf @Spleener: OK, I simply assumed the values from wowhead were correct. Completely forgot about any hotfixes. Thanks! @Astrylian: Well, that's just awkward. I'm guessing someone will come up with addons or maybe WeakAura has a way to track it.
02/27/13, 4:59 PM   #297
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
[EDIT: ok I missed a whole page. But, regardless, my # for Chi generation rate doesn't match anything anyone has said so far and I think it's right, so, I'm leaving it here :P . Also my question on whether it resets was answered so that makes this number more useful.]

[EDIT 2: 2.94 ticks per Chi is the same as the 34.02% number given above actually, so we agree there.]

 Originally Posted by Spleener Could someone who's better at math than I am figure out what the average chi proc chance per tick/cast comes out to with the new soothing so I can put that in the calculator?
Assuming the built-up proc chance doesn't reset each time you stop channeling (i.e. so this hidden proc increase always continues until you get a proc), it's on average 2.94 ticks to get each Chi. If it does reset when you stop channeling, it is somewhat worse since you lose ground unless you stop channeling right after a Chi (this would be pretty annoying).

Can do more presentable math later if you need, but spreadsheet with the quick calc is attached.

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I think the way to conceptualize a free Chi while Fistweaving is that it upgrades a TP to a BK. There are only two things you can do while fistweaving: Jab-TP (when you don't have a Chi or don't want to spend it) and Jab-BK (costing 1 Chi). Both cost the same mana, the only difference is whether you want to spend the Chi. (Technically Jab-TP generates 0.2 Chi via Vital Mist).

You're pulling in a lot of Chi from outside the fistweaving rotation (one from ReM every 8 seconds, and one from Expel Harm every 15, in addition to Vital Mists and other small things). These get turned into Jab-BK's. You basically never Jab-Jab-BK.
Attached Files
 Book1.xls (16.5 KB, 78 views)

Last edited by Hamlet : 02/27/13 at 5:10 PM.

02/27/13, 5:26 PM   #298
Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>

Tauren Druid

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Sasazuka @Astrylian: Well, that's just awkward. I'm guessing someone will come up with addons or maybe WeakAura has a way to track it.
The whole point is that this way, you don't need to go out of your way to track it. You can stop/start Soothing whenever you like and you won't impair your Chi generation, you'll just get a Chi every ~3 ticks over the course of the fight on average, mostly like you do now. If they'd done it the other way and had it reset, then you'd have to game it constantly and it would be irritating.

Honestly the only funny thing about this whole change is that it doesn't really do anything material, just assuages people's complaints about randomness is supposed to feel like.

 02/28/13, 2:40 PM #299 lairpie Don Flamenco   Rollee Pandaren Monk   Shadowmoon It also lowers the chances of getting a couple chi in a row by quite a bit which was pretty annoying just like getting none for long periods was. If you think about a rotation of ReM on cd, Soothing, enveloping when you have the chi for it, which is something they obviously want to be a viable tank healing rotation, this lowers the amount of time your healing would be way higher or way lower simply due to luck. A little bit of RNG dependence can be countered by a surging once in a while, but there were just too many times where you'd be channeling an unenveloped soothing and barely be outhealing a hot to be a reliable tank healer.