I agree that valuing Power Strikes by treating it as the MP5 equivalent of a Jab every 20s grossly overstates it. In 5.2, people have to get used to the idea that using a Jab as pure mana-Chi conversion is flat-out bad play (which is a new concept, as this was commonly done before 5.2). What you're essentially saying is that if you didn't have Power Strikes, you'd instead be throwing a naked Jab every few seconds and then wasting the MM.

This post is mostly correct. In particular (Suzu), your logic is backwards--you have to factor in the MM rebate in the value of an extra Chi because you never waste MM normally. The only part I disagree with is that, even if you are using BK to AoE, I still don't think it's appropriate to value PS as equivalent to an SCK with rebate. The value of Power Strikes, in all cases, is the value of the extra Chi spenders you get to cast because you have higher Chi income before resorting to wasteful generators like naked Jabs.

Example: In AoE situations, you normally SCK-BK and consume 1 outside Chi as often as you can. So basically, you can think of the main molecules of AE fistweaving as Renewing-SCK-BK or EH-SCK-BK, whenever Renewing or EH are available. Power strikes adds a new one every 20s: Jab-BK. If, in the absence of Power Strikes, you were going to force it by using SCK-SCK-BK anyway, then yes, PS saves you a ton of mana (the full gross cost of the SCK). If not though, its value is the added healing output of the free BK, minus the net mana put into the one Jab.

In reality it's not so black and white, but the point is (and I'm belaboring this a bit because it applies in contexts beyond Power Strikes), an added Chi looks really good if you compare it to bad play--i.e. assuming that you'd alternatively have generated that Chi in the least efficient way possible. This mostly why it's hard to value resource gains without thinking about the secondary effects of changed spellcasting.

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Very related, see the post I just made here about valuing Spirit: [Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.2 . It applies to Monks pretty much as-is. This is why I hate the "Spirit until you're comfortable" trope in all healer guides--you're just punting the question of how good the stat is. The point of guides isn't to tell people to do whatever they feel like. Just like any other stat, Spirit's a good secondary for some healers and a bad one for others, for actual numerical reasons related to your spells.

Also, in the Shit I Should Have Checked Out On PTR department:

The mistweaver 2pc is significantly stronger than you'd think from the wording. The text implies the increase happens on the subsequent jumps, meaning target 1 gets 100% of normal healing, target 2 gets 115%, and target 3 gets 132.25% of normal healing, for a total of (100 + 115 + 132.25) / 3 = 115.75% of normal healing, or a 15.75% increase.

In truth, the initial application appears to also count as a jump, which means you're getting (115% + 132.25% + 152.0875%) / 3 = 133.1125% of normal healing, or a 33.1125% increase to ReM's total healing.

Based on that (I haven't really attempted to math out anything yet on the issue) it seems that once you can obtain 2 piece reaching the second haste break point would be advisable especially at a higher gear level when you can afford to drop some crit and still have a decent amount.

Speaking of trinkets again, is there any chance someone better at math could work out the relative MP5 values of the various regen trinkets? That's [Spirits of the Sun], [Relic of Chi Ji], [Qin-xi's Polarizing Seal], [Horridon's Last Gasp], [Inscribed Bag of Hydra-Spawn], [Stolen Relic of Zuldazar], and [Soothing Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault]. I think that's all the regen trinkets from the past 2 tiers. Probably shouldn't include upgraded versions in any calculations if you were to even bother doing anything but the heroic level trinkets.

EDIT: I only really ask since Chi-Ji seems much better than its ilvl, as expected of a darkmoon trinket.

Correct. Of note is that using Thunder Focus Tea with Uplift counts as a "jump" when it reapplies Renewing Mists to all targets. This was unchanged in the hotfix, so our 2pc and 4pc do share some synergy.

So with the 2pc the possible healing on ReM is:
Initial cast: 100%
Second target: 115%
Third target: 132.25%
Third target + TFT -> Uplift: 152.08%

TFT -> Uplifting will bump each target up a "tier", per say.

Hi Valen, just noticed a slight error in your calculation for the values of int and crit in terms of MP5. At 420 it's worth ~0.11 MP5, at 210 it's worth ~0.21 MP5, and at 840 it's worth ~0.05 MP5. Obviously that shouldn't be the case and it should hover somewhere around the 0.1 mark consistently through any fight with a reasonable duration.

You're not adjusting the mana tea stack usage along with fight length. Int and crit's mp5 value are ((base tea stacks used * crit% gained * max mana * 0.04) / fight length) * 5, so halving the fight length without halving mana tea stacks for the whole fight means you're doubling mana tea stack usage per time, which correctly doubles the mp5 gain of int/crit.

This seems like an awful lot regarding the Gnome racial: basically 2 free regen trinkets. If you're right I'll faction change right now, honestly, no sarcasm.

Gnome gets 300 mp5 off the bat just for mana pool (combat mp5 = Total Base Mana * 0.02 + 0.56435 * Spirit)

And then ~1200 mp5 is gained just from 5% bonus to mana tea?

This implies that we get a whopping 1200/.05 = 24,000 mp5 from mana tea, 288,000 mana per minute, when mana tea used on cooldown under perfect conditions returns .08 * 6 = 48% of our mana per minute. Which means we have a 600,000 mana pool??? Or are all of these calculations based on fistweaving with muscle memory?

Can we talk about the real world? 36% of our mana per minute returned from mana tea (very generous, in WoL I see decent monks get 48 mana tea stacks over a 9 minute fight). Let's say we have ascension with ember primal = 351k mana = 126,360 mana per minute = 10,530 mp5. Gnome = 366,000 mana = 131,760 mana per minute = 10,980 mp5 - 10,530 mp5 = 450 mp5.

450 mp5 + 300 mp5 (passive) = 750 mp5 for gnome.

I don't know where 4500mp5 for ascension comes from unless people are factoring in the chi saved from 5 max, plus a reservoir of max mana tea stacks, plus fistweaving.

All of those calculations were based on a fairly high amount of fistweaving, since the subject at hand was MM's effect on the value of max mana increases. I was going off the MM/tea usage mentioned one or two posts above that one, which was based on maximum practical MM proc usage, so those are effectively the ceilings for their mp5 value.

MoP Mistweaver Calculations will calc the actual mp5 of those racials based on fight length + mana tea/MM usage at the bottom.

Any % increases to your base mana will not be included in the base regeneration calculation if I'm not mistaken. Also, Valen, a few things I noticed when using your calculations;

-Zen Sphere doesn't have any haste thresholds, while the ones you've calculated should be correct the entire HoT isn't effected by haste at all.
-Blackout Kick additional targets are in live, the (old?) tag is unnecessary.
-Renewing Mist and SCK base HPS are a bit wacky/inconsistent, would it not be proper to have their healing done over the duration of the effect? (2/buffedHaste)*tickAmount for Renewing Mist, and (2.25/SotWS-unbuffedHaste) for SCK.

Interesting bug... it does proc of HoTs at what I assume is a greatly reduced proc chance, proof here;



It also procs from mastery absorbs too. The "best" way I've found so far to utilize the effect is to always be camped in melee and do this;


Which will give you 8% free max mana on execution, and in the long term an extra 2% max mana through mana tea.