Haste to 1350 is extremely easy. I'm reforging out of all of my haste at a 473 ilvl and still getting it. Mastery was more valuable in the 10man testing we did, was like ~18% or so of my healing, but that was before they gave us appropriate ae healing abilities post uplift-not-refreshing-nerf. I've always been against crit because it's so unreliable, but seems like the reliability of the two is about even as far as requirements. Crit is lolcrit and Mastery is a "did this orb spawn ontop of someone who needed heal? If so, WIN! If not? lol lightwell GL getting someone to intentionally walk through it.


We'll have to see more numbers I suppose, but it isn't looking that promising for mastery in a 25man raid setting, which is opposite of what I was expecting. Is SCK proccing mastery?

Our mechanics are solidifying and as release nears, I plan on doing a pretty big rewrite of the OP of this thread. I plan on adding sections about gearing, enchanting, stat weights, professions, consumables, etc in addition to what we have covered right now. If anyone has specific things they'd like to see in the guide, please PM me.

I've been spending most of my time on the calculator recently. It's in reasonable shape in terms of being able to properly model the numbers in-game, which means it is usable for more complex things such as rotation modeling, gem optimization, etc etc. I'm reasonably happy with how it works compared to a traditional spreadsheet, and it is far easier to work with (for everyone, not just the maintainer), so I plan on using it heavily in the guide for discussion of the math behind some decisions. PM me if you see problems or issues with it, too, of course.

Would be nice to add healing numbers from Chi Torpedo and Surging Mist w/TFT.

How did you do the math on Renewing Mist? Thinking it takes time for it to spread to all 4 targets, the overall healing might be fine, but the hps seems it could be off because you're not healing 4 targets all at the same time for all 18s of the HoT.

So I am assuming for 25 mans, crit or spirit will be the big one. But, I don't see how that can hold 100% true for all Mistweavers though, as there are two differing play styles. It's something I noticed that isn't being taken into account through these discussions. If stat weights hold true for all monks, I would see that as a good thing.

Myself, I will be trying to be a melee DPS healer as much as possible, while a guildie of mine will be doing traditional caster healing. Neither of us are able to be on during the raid testing, if there are any left to test for 25 man. With that in mind, we will both be ready to compare notes next month after release and share them provided someone else doesn't get to us before I post them.

The best regen racial for alliance monks is actually the gnome one- since mana tea scales with max mana, you're effectively increasing the effect of mana tea by 5%. At level 90 this amounts to +150 mana per chi spent.

In comparison, the pandaren racial gives +300 spirit, which is 169.3 in-combat mp5. You only have to spend 1.13 chi every 5 seconds for the gnome racial to come out ahead. As you can probably tell by this, it takes extremely low levels of chi/mana tea usage or extremely high levels of spirit for the human racial to come out ahead. The panda racial at least has the upside of being able to be used for throughput when you don't need the extra regen, though.

On the horde side, the BE racial is 1 chi every two minutes, or 3000 mana / 120s * 5 = 125 mp5. Inferior to the panda racial in regen, but the chi also represents a throughput increase, and there's also the utility of the silence.

And before anyone asks, while 5% mana beats 3% or 300 spirit, 2% mana (from the ember meta) does not beat 432 spirit (from the revitalizing meta.) It's 60 mana per chi spent vs. 243.8 mp5, so you have to spend 4 chi every 5 seconds (which is impossible) in order for ember to come out ahead.

May as well cross-post a couple of things I put on the beta forums over here:

So I coded back in proper scaling support in the calculator (I haven't even pushed the code to github yet, so don't bother checking the site,) and I don't think I'm doing anything horribly wrong in my calculations so I can give some conclusions regarding stat priorities now.

TL;DR-
Tank healing- haste >= crit > mastery
Fistweaving- crit > mastery > haste
AE healing - crit > haste > mastery*

This ignores breakpoints, of course- the above essentially only apply once you've hit the 1345 haste breakpoint to get an extra tick for ReM when raid buffed.

Some details-

Mastery's fundamental problem is that the proc rates are designed around (hits per second * spell proc rate multiplier) coming out to around 1 before haste is factored in, which is to say that it's designed around 1% mastery giving you roughly an additional .01 balls per second. This means that 1% mastery increases your hps by roughly 1% of the average healing done by a GotS sphere (this will be in the 25-30k range when your ilvl is in the mid 400s.) Meanwhile, an equivalent amount of haste rating increases the hps of all spells that scale with haste by 1.13% and an equivalent amount of crit rating increases the hps of all spells (including mastery balls) by .8%.

*Of course, the rates for infinite-target heals (ie CB, SCK, Chi torpedo, and ZS:D) are balanced around 6 targets, which means that (assuming that the proc rate doesn't "cap" at six targets like the healing does, which I have not confirmed) mastery will contribute significantly more healing in a 25-man when the raid is stacked up and being facefucked in glorious unison than in a 10, to the point where on paper it moves from worst to best. In practice, though, I probably wouldn't go and reforge/regem to max mastery for any T14 fight. Meanwhile, for fistweaving mastery only beats out haste because haste is even more terrible for fist.

Moving on to haste- while only one of our chi spenders directly scales with it at all (enveloping,) they do indirectly scale with haste if you're generating chi with SCK or soothing, since more haste means you get the chi to spend faster. So basically haste is pretty good for tank healing because 2/3 of the spells you use (soothing/enveloping, which are ideally a large chunk of your healing vs. surging) scale with it, decent for SCK->CB/Uplift because SCK (which is roughly 2/3 of the healing done in that rotation) scales with it, and awful for fistweaving because only your white swings (which are admittedly ~40% of your damage) scale with it.

Mastery being so bad on paper is honestly a bit troubling to me, though- if anything I feel like they should "over-budget" it a bit so it looks better than the other stats on paper to deal with the fact that in the average case a fair amount of balls are going to be wasted.



Thinking on it, the best way to fix mastery would be to have the balls heal for x% of the triggering heal, rather than a semi-constant amount. This would also fix the issue of it scaling weirdly with SCK/CB past the target cap, since while going from 10 to 25 people will still give you 2.5x as many balls the balls will heal for 40% as much.

As far as weapons go, for fistweaving you want a staff. Way of the Monk normalizes the auto-attack damage of 1h and 2h (to the point where 1h actually comes out slightly ahead there) but Jab/TP/BoK damage still heavily favors 2H. If there's a significant (ie >20) difference in ilvl a higher mace/oh will still probably come out ahead by virtue of doing more auto attack and non-eminence healing, I'd imagine (though I haven't thrown too many numbers at this.)

Has anyone done any extensive testing to determine how "wide" (in yards) Chi Burst is? With my minimal beta access, and players willing to afk while I test on them the closest guess I have is 8 yards wide (4 yards to the left/right of the imaginary line drawn between you and your target). Here is an image I created to help illustrate. I have also seem to have noticed there isn't a "bloom" affect on either yourself or your target. What i mean by that is a circle radius around you would get healed as well. I also thought there would be a little overlap past your target but from what i have seen there isn't. I had a player within a yard behind my target that was not getting any healing.

Regarding weapon enchants, I looked over this weeks' raid logs and Windsong seemed to have around ~2-4% uptime, proccing anywhere from zero to 3 times depending on how long (5 to 10 minutes) the fight was. Since this averages out to around 50 of one of our secondary stats, I switched to Heartsong.

Actualy if your going melee healing monk Windsong isnt quiet as bad. When trying it on the Spirit Kings i managed a 22% uptime unlike the 2% overall when ranged healing.

I've updated the OP slightly for changes since Mists went live.

I think we're in an interesting situation with respect to Fistweaving. Basically there are no 2h staves with Int before Terrace opens. There are some at 463, but above that, it's all 1h maces and axes. This effectively kills Fistweaving for the time being, and even once Terrace is here, the BiS staff ([Jin'ya, Orb of the Waterspeaker]) lacks Spirit, so it may not be the best choice.

From a practical standpoint, then, this means SCK and RM are our best Chi generators when not tank healing (and if you're tank healing, speak to your healing lead, because right now we're crazy OP at raid healing). SCK's Chi generation is strongly affected by haste, while RM's isn't at all. The main Chi dump when raid healing is, of course, Uplift (perhaps sometimes accompanied by Rushing Jade Wind). Now that ZS: Detonate is fixed, most of our Tier 30 talents are not especially impressive. Chi Wave might be situationally useful for slamming solid, direct heals on a tank or someone else, but it still seems pretty buggy.

Yes, my Soothing always gets interrupted about 1/2 way through the cast on Elegon. I started just recasting it about 1/2 way through rather than letting it get interrupted so I wasn't getting tricked into hard casting Enveloping.