Mistweaver Healing Compendium - Page 7

Szeretlek · 10/08/12, 6:13 AM

Now that ZS: Detonate is fixed, most of our Tier 30 talents are not especially impressive.

How it was fixed? Last time I used it (thursday) it was OP as hell.
I just used it unbuffed and numbers around 35k.

What was changed?

Meia · 10/08/12, 8:55 AM

Before, Detonate's healing didn't go down the more people it healed like every other healing aoe. Now it seems it does(it's what led to parses in earlier fights like Feng where detonate did as much healing as SCK). This fix seemed to have happened either during yesterday's downtime or the day before, though there are no hotfix notes to reflect it.

Didn't notice any problems with soothing against Elegon last night, but then again I can't recall many times I let the cast go through all the way anyway.

Runemist · 10/08/12, 9:56 AM

The interupts on Elegon are due to the fact your target move in or out of the "buff" zone.
It actually also bugs SCK (it will get cancelled if you move in or out of the zone while spinning).

Edit : It's actually more buggy than that, both Soothing and SCK will sometimes just stop for no "good" reason. I believe its due to some mechanism with buffs and debuffs but not sure exactly how it works yet. While its annoying on soothing since the mana cost depends on how long you channel its more than troublesome on SCK where you pay the spell up front.

As far as mana is concerned on Elegon well we found out that its mostly a DPS not screwing up issue. As raid heal you can top Annihilation damage in 2 chi bursts. So as long as you don't need to spend tons of mana on DPS that decided to camp too long in the "buff" zone and took a nasty arcing thingy you should be fine for P1.
P2 again depends how aggressive your guild is (we never went pas 4 orb waves) maybe use revival at that point.
P3 well the end of it kinda sucks for us so can't give any advice on it.

Some more notes on Elegon :
- Aim for 100% mana entering P4 if you have tons of melees and plan to never reset your stacks.
- Xuen is awesome for that last burst and helps on those P1 as well
- statue placement :
* if you put it on the outer ring it will not reach your melees
* if you put it on the inner circle you will have to redrop it every phase.

Eatmorepie · 10/09/12, 8:05 AM

Hey everyone,

first post for me and due to not speaking English as first language I hope all of you can understand what I want.
thanks in advance.

So I actually didn't get the opportunity to step into the new raid instance until tonight.
From guides which I have read I can get mosts fight and vaguely know how to deal with certain mechanics.

Are there any tweaks on certain fights which can help me out on healing matters?
Any hints like:
"Use Chi Burst instead of Zen Sphere on Feng due to the recent hotfix to Zen Sphere."
"Use Xuen on Elegon to max out against in the DPS race."

I'll be raiding in a 10m group.

On another sidenote:
Has anyone tried to heal Elegon as a Fistweaver?
From guides I understand that you make more damage the longer you stay on elegons platform.
More damage = more healing through Eminence.
Is this a viable tactic or will it be better to heal with conservative heals.

Thanks for the gr8 work on this thread really appreciate everything in here.
Very helpful!

and don't forget to
eatmorepie

Runemist · 10/09/12, 9:31 AM

From what i gathered from logs monks have managed to post good numbers with every spec and playstyle just need to know when to use what.

Fistweaving on Elegon does work, again browse the top logs some used it efficiently but they mostly used fists to generate chi for uplift. But i personaly didnt get a good feel for it.

The reason i used Xuen over RJW is mostly because with eminence its a nice healing CD and takes only 1 GCD for 45s of use.

Talents i used per fight this reset :
All : Chi brew, momentum, Diffuse Magic
Stone guards : Chi wave , Xuen (not that it seemed to matter much)
Feng : Chi Burst , RSW
Shaman Guy : Chi Burst , RSW
Elegon : Chi Burst, Xuen

Eatmorepie · 10/09/12, 9:51 AM

I'm still at work but I'll check WoL when I get home.
Should've thought of that myself.

The talent choices are almost the same as I would have chosen.
Few differences, but that is personal preference as usual.

The GCD "breakdown" between Xuen and RJW is a new factor that didn't come to my mind beforehand.
Thanks for that.

And thanks for the swift answer.

and don't forget to
eatmorepie

EDIT:

another topic that interests me is the problem with fistweaving when wearing 1H +OH.
I know this has been discussed a while ago, but since beta is beta and live is live.

The problem that I see is as follows:

When using a 1H + OH you get the 40(?)% increase in damage with autoattacks.
Doesn't the fact that you only hit with 1 weapon somehow half the benefit by 2 ?
I understand that you still have 40% increased damage with the one weapon, but the second weapon is nonexistend.
Which leads to my conclusion that you should use a staff or polearm to fistweave.
the 40% increased haste are fully used on a 2H weapon.

Of course there are no real choices in current Tier, but as for entering Raids the 476 spiritstaff made by scribes
would be ahead of a combo of 476 1H+OH.

Obviously I haven't checked numbers or logs on this topic, but the theory might work.
Certainly does in my head.

again try to
eatmorepie

Eishara · 10/09/12, 1:56 PM

The bonus Way of the Monk gives for 1H weapons while in Mistweaver spec is 70% increased damage, not 40%, Wowhead and the like don't accurately report this. The actual difference in autoattack DPS between a staff and 1H + OH is going to be so small that it likely isn't going to matter and it'll come down to whichever gives you the most stats.

Daellia · 10/09/12, 4:10 PM

The bonus Way of the Monk gives for 1H weapons while in Mistweaver spec is 70% increased damage, not 40%, Wowhead and the like don't accurately report this. The actual difference in autoattack DPS between a staff and 1H + OH is going to be so small that it likely isn't going to matter and it'll come down to whichever gives you the most stats.

As an example, [Inscribed Crane Staff] versus [Je'lyu, Spirit of the Serpent].

The former has an average damage of 6119, speed 3.3. With 40% haste, this equates to an average base DPS of 2595.94.

The latter has an average damage of 3300.5, speed 2.4. With 70% increased damage, this equates to an average base DPS of 2337.85.

Haste scaling can be ignored, as it's multiplicative with the haste from Way of the Monk. Crit and Mastery can also obviously be ignored. Staves have a normalization constant of 3.3, one-hand weapons of 2.4. Since these are equal to the base speeds of the weapons in question, 14 AP (7 SP) equals 1 DPS with each, baseline. This means that with Way of the Monk, the staff gains 1.4 DPS per 7 SP, and the mace gains 1.7 DPS per 7 SP. Crossover point will be at 6359.22 SP for those two weapons (crossover points goes up proportional to weapon DPS, assuming the ratio of weapon DPS between 2h and 1h is constant, which it appears to be).

Since SP in a raid setting is at 20k+, 1h weapons should have a moderate edge (around 10% depending on weapon quality relative to gear quality). Incidentally, this ratio carries over to special attacks as well (1handers are superior to 2handers in "weapon damage" at those levels of SP as well). Incidentally, faster weapons get more of a benefit from this for special damage (white damage of course scales identically regardless of speed), so if you fistweave a lot, a fast 1-hander will be optimal (say, for example, [Loshan, Terror Incarnate]).

Illu · 10/09/12, 4:22 PM

I don't think [Cranedancer's Staff] should be discounted when it comes to fistweaving and choosing a weapon for it, either. Its ingame stats is quite different than that - it has 2910 DPS, making it by far the strongest Eminence weapon, despite a ilevel of 450.

While I expect this to change, given I don't see how even epics can rival this for a while; it's there now, available through the class staff vendor at Peak, for testing.

Daellia · 10/09/12, 4:58 PM

Well, Illu, remember that spell power translates into AP for us. 509 weapons have 7907 SP on them, compared to the 4563 SP from that staff. That's a difference of 3344 SP is increased by 10% by raid buffs to 3678, which then translates to 7357 AP (pretty sure we don't double-dip into the AP raid buff, though). 7357 AP is 525 DPS on it's own, on top of the 2521.8 DPS of the Sha-touched staff itself, putting it superior to that staff. In addition, you've lost maybe 10% of your non-Eminence healing from the spell power loss. Not really a smart trade, by my estimates.

Spleener · 10/09/12, 7:47 PM

I was under the impression that WotM only applies to auto-attack DPS, not the damage done by jab, TP, and BoK. So you get slightly higher AA DPS but inferior jab/TP/BoK DPS from a 1H/OH combo.

Snoe · 10/10/12, 3:27 AM

Pardon my ignorance as I'm very new to mistweavers, but what exactly is 'fistweaving'? And before you ask, yes I've read the entire thread but cannot find anything to clarify this technique/word.

Eatmorepie · 10/10/12, 3:28 AM

Originally Posted by Daellia

Well, Illu, remember that spell power translates into AP for us. 509 weapons have 7907 SP on them, compared to the 4563 SP from that staff. That's a difference of 3344 SP is increased by 10% by raid buffs to 3678, which then translates to 7357 AP (pretty sure we don't double-dip into the AP raid buff, though). 7357 AP is 525 DPS on it's own, on top of the 2521.8 DPS of the Sha-touched staff itself, putting it superior to that staff. In addition, you've lost maybe 10% of your non-Eminence healing from the spell power loss. Not really a smart trade, by my estimates.

Don't forget to add the Legendary Gem, which everyone should get in time.

If 1 Int still equals 1 SP, at least wowwiki says so,
then we'll have an increase as follows:

500 INT = 500 SP
=> 1000 AP

Originally Posted by Snoe

Pardon my ignorance as I'm very new to mistweavers, but what exactly is 'fistweaving'? And before you ask, yes I've read the entire thread but cannot find anything to clarify this technique/word.

fistweaving is essentially a healing style where you mainly do damage and heal via Eminence and your Serpentstatue.

Eminence + Serpent's Statue concludes in 100% damage to healing conversion.

Snoe · 10/10/12, 5:05 AM

Sorry, about going OT on this but in what situations would fistweaving be viable? Should I be able to keep a normal dungeion group up or is it just for raid healing?

shadowreh · 10/10/12, 10:34 AM

I find RJW and chi burst on Elegon to be very compelling especially during the add phase at the end of phase 2, since i can use RJW on adds for damage and group healing and then chi burst the tank and ranged dps in line.
My group managed an 8% wipe last night with suboptimal mana on both healers as we entered phase 3 so i am confident that we get him down this ID.

Our biggest issue apart from personal fails is GCD distribution after the add detonates. I have to spend 5 GCD on SCK and two chi burst to get the group back up alone while the paladin healer is set on our tanks. Regardless of that we often lose either a tank or our one melee dps in that time.
This is directly connected for me to SM being randomly disrupted sometimes thrice per ten seconds even on a tank, making either EM or surging mist not instant and me wasting at least one GCD.
I don't want to tell my group to get another healer but i am tempted since i feel that with the constant disruption ,GCD waste and RNG chi generation, another healer would be of better use.

I will write a ticket about SM getting randomly disrupted and see whether they already know this.
Would be interesting to See whether shadows or affliction warlocks suffer from the same channeling issues.

Edit: the issue with SM getting interrupted seems to have been fixed today, according to patch notes.