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Old 10/17/12, 9:32 AM   #121
Lofkas
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Undermine
Feng Heroic

l am a little confuse what to use in strong AOE damage with the hotfix zen sphere and Spinning Crane Kick.

A fight like Feng Heroic... is better to:

Renewing Mist + Uplift + jab

or

Renewing Mist + Spinning Crane Kick with Rushing Jade Wind + jab

or

Renewing Mist + zen sphere + jab


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Old 10/17/12, 12:07 PM   #122
Spleener
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Monk
 
Sen'jin
Zen Sphere is pretty much only good if you're a dedicated tank healer, and even then I feel like Chi Wave might still be better. ZSD does equal healing to CB with twice the effective chi cost and cast time, so post-bugfix under no circumstances should you use it purely as an AE heal.

RJW is also never a good choice, since the bonus SCK healing post-nerf is less than the healing of a CB, and if you're using SCK enough that RJW is a consideration than you should be specced into CB anyway. I haven't done much TC on chi torpedo, but as far as RJW vs. Xuen goes the right choice is going to be Xuen 99% of the time.

As far as Feng-like "raid is stacked in one spot and getting facefucked in glorious unison" situations go, your priority is ReM > CB if you have it, Uplift or CW if you don't > SCK

Even post-nerf, building chi with jab in that situation will be an hps and hpm loss over building chi with SCK.

ReM can be dropped to below your chi spender or even below SCK if damage is intense now but will drop down to jack shit well before it can distribute all of its healing (which isn't really the case with Feng.) On paper it is a higher hpct than SCK or CB, though.

Uplift can also slip above CB in hps if you've TFT'd yourself to a sufficiently high number of targets (ie 10+.) TFT-Uplift with 6-8+ targets is also theoretically more hps/hpc than CB, but the ReM caveat applies there too.

But the tl;dr is that for Feng-like situations where damage is even and the raid is stacked, you build chi with SCK/ReM and spend it with CB.

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

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Old 10/17/12, 2:25 PM   #123
Portrero
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Hunter
 
Drak'thul
You need 9 or more targets for Uplift to heal more than Chi Burst. Chi Burst caps out at 6 targets, which also includes awesome things like treants, pets, etc.

Last edited by Portrero : 10/17/12 at 2:44 PM.

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Old 10/26/12, 11:06 AM   #124
Mattyr
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Deathwing
MWStating

Just out of curiosity, I've been wondering other then that first haste plat. has there been any developing news on further ones, and among that, how is the stating working, just reading most of this info here, it's all beta related.

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Old 10/26/12, 3:14 PM   #125
Spleener
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Monk
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Mattyr View Post
Just out of curiosity, I've been wondering other then that first haste plat. has there been any developing news on further ones, and among that, how is the stating working, just reading most of this info here, it's all beta related.
The next haste breakpoint after 1345 is 8085 for an additional ReM tick. This might be attainable in gear later in the expansion, but given that haste is such a bad stat for most of your major healing sources it wouldn't be worth actually going for.

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Old 10/26/12, 4:04 PM   #126
Spleener
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Monk
 
Sen'jin
So when running numbers on the new T45s it hit me that my valuation of 1 chi's mana gain is entirely wrong.

Assuming Jab is your main generator, 1 free chi is a saved jab. That means instead of spending 9000 mana and getting 3k back later from tea, you're spending 0 mana and getting 3k back from tea (on top of saving a GCD, of course.) This means the effective value of 1 chi is 12k mana, not 3k like I was thinking about it before. This goes up if you're simming some other generator, of course.

So this means that the value of the BE racial is 12000 / 120 * 5 = 500 mp5.

As far as the T45s go in 5.1-

-Power Strikes is 1 free chi every 22s (assuming you time your jab flawlessly, which you probably won't,) or 12000 / 22 * 5 = 2727.3 mp5
-Chi Brew is 4 free chi every 90s (assuming you use it on CD, which you probably won't,) or 12000 * 4 / 90 * 5 = 2666.7 mp5
-Ascension is +15% mana. This is an additional 450 mana per mana tea charge used, plus 45k mana added to your starting pool, which you calculate as (45k / fight length * 5.) This is really hard to fully quantify as it varies on both fight length and chi/mana tea usage but looking at a couple of my logs the range can ballpark to 1100-1400 mp5.

At first it looks like ascension is hands-down worse than PS or CB, but you also have to remember that it gives you a higher chi cap. The value of this can vary wildly depending on style and situation- a higher chi cap can reduce the chance of wasting chi due to mistakes in play, and it can also increase your potential burst hps.


Finally, datamines from the latest build are confusing on mastery changes. If all they did was add the "consolation prize" heal, the stat is still garbage. If they doubled the healing done like some tooltips suggest, secondary stat priority becomes haste to 1345 > mas > crit > haste and I have to change my BiS list.

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

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Old 10/26/12, 4:54 PM   #127
quietstrm07
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Spleener View Post
-Ascension is +15% mana. This is an additional 450 mana per mana tea charge used, plus 45k mana added to your starting pool, which you calculate as (45k / fight length * 5.) This is really hard to fully quantify as it varies on both fight length and chi/mana tea usage but looking at a couple of my logs the range can ballpark to 1100-1400 mp5.
Excuse me if I'm not correctly calculating this, but wouldn't the calculation be 300,000 * .15 * .04 for the Mana Tea benefit as you regenerate 4% of maximum mana for each stack of Mana Tea consumed. So the math would come out to 300,000 * .15 = 45,000 max mana increase -> 45,000 x .04 = 1,800 mana per stack of Mana Tea consumed (4x that which you had in your calculation).

EDIT: Just re-read your post and realized you were basing it off the mana return of 1 chi. That would explain the math differences

Last edited by quietstrm07 : 10/26/12 at 5:15 PM.

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Old 10/26/12, 4:59 PM   #128
Szeretlek
Piston Honda
 
Troll Priest
 
Термоштепсель (EU)
Assuming new PTR changes ***DATAMINED, NOT OFFICIAL CHANGES***:
Gift of the Serpent now creates Spheres that last 3 min, up from 10 sec. Healing amount doubled. If the sphere expires without being used, a nearby injured ally will be healed for 15,972.
Ascension now also increases your maximum mana by 15%, and your energy regen by 15%.
Soothing Mist now has a 35% chance to generate 1 Chi, up from 25%. Now costs less mana.
Tiger Palm no longer stacks the armor ignore buff, just applies 30% initially.
These changes makes monk even more OP. I cant believe it, because I expect nerfs, not awesome buffs.
Maybe in next build there will be nerfs.

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Old 10/27/12, 12:24 AM   #129
Spleener
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Monk
 
Sen'jin
Mastery sphere update: it does the same amount of healing it does on live; however, there's a bug in the current PTR build where the heal that triggers when it expires also triggers when consumed normally.

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

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Old 10/27/12, 2:58 PM   #130
gahddo
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
<HC>
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Spleener View Post
Mastery sphere update: it does the same amount of healing it does on live; however, there's a bug in the current PTR build where the heal that triggers when it expires also triggers when consumed normally.
Is the duration really 3 minutes? I don't logically see why they'd make it heal on expire and then increase the duration...making it meh again.

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Old 10/29/12, 7:59 AM   #131
dracjin
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Spleener View Post
So when running numbers on the new T45s it hit me that my valuation of 1 chi's mana gain is entirely wrong.

...
For Ascension you have to add another 12k to the initial 45k for the one extra chi before the fight begins.

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Old 10/30/12, 5:26 PM   #132
Sasazuka
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostwolf
Healing Sphere no longer heals when expired.
Brewing: Mana Tea has a new additional effect: You have a chance equal to your crit chance to generate double the Mana Tea charges.
Stance of the Wise Serpent now also increases haste from items by 150%.

Doesn't this lower the value of both haste and mastery even more especially when critical is now also a part of mana regen? I'm guessing we may see more breakpoints in the future or maybe we may want to reach the next Renewing Mists breakpoint (8085 with buffs)

EDIT: Source

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Old 10/30/12, 6:46 PM   #133
Harmann
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub
Originally Posted by Sasazuka View Post
Healing Sphere no longer heals when expired.
Brewing: Mana Tea has a new additional effect: You have a chance equal to your crit chance to generate double the Mana Tea charges.
Stance of the Wise Serpent now also increases haste from items by 150%.

Doesn't this lower the value of both haste and mastery even more especially when critical is now also a part of mana regen? I'm guessing we may see more breakpoints in the future or maybe we may want to reach the next Renewing Mists breakpoint (8085 with buffs)

EDIT: Source
Was the boost to Healing Spheres retracted?

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Old 10/30/12, 6:50 PM   #134
Spleener
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Monk
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Sasazuka View Post
Healing Sphere no longer heals when expired.
Brewing: Mana Tea has a new additional effect: You have a chance equal to your crit chance to generate double the Mana Tea charges.
Stance of the Wise Serpent now also increases haste from items by 150%.

Doesn't this lower the value of both haste and mastery even more especially when critical is now also a part of mana regen? I'm guessing we may see more breakpoints in the future or maybe we may want to reach the next Renewing Mists breakpoint (8085 with buffs)

EDIT: Source
Getting 2.5x haste from items basically compensates for the fact that outside of breakpoints the majority of your healing doesn't scale with haste at all. I'll have to do more number-crunching to be sure on this, but with this change haste might even be the top stat if you're building chi primarily with soothing or SCK, since if you're building chi with those spells haste indirectly increases the throughput of your chi spells via faster generation. If you're building chi with jab or glyphing uplift I would still adhere to the existing "haste to a breakpoint, then crit" rule.

ReM breakpoints with this change are 538 for the first tick and 3234 for the second.

The crit mana tea thing is a little weird, seeing as it's already the best secondary for us. But maybe the idea is that it makes crit the best secondary because it actually does something interesting for us, rather than it being the best secondary because it's the least bad one?

Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.

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Old 10/30/12, 8:37 PM   #135
Sasazuka
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostwolf
I thought haste had no impact on the duration of the channel and the number of ticks for Soothing Mist (at least according to the calculator). Maybe it will be in an upcoming change but who knows.

SCK certainly would be impacted.

Going by the amount of MP5 provided per 100 Spirit (56.4 according to the resto druid's guide) - spirit still wins out in most cases unless we can generate enough chi to benefit from the proc. 600 spirit being 12184.2 mana over 3 minutes and 600 crit rating being 1% crit chance.

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