Something to keep in mind for 5.2. With the changes to mastery, the 4pc bonus for the current tier becomes pretty useful. We are going to need a lot of haste to get GCD capped again, so the extra energy will be a big help. If you aren't fighting off Combo Breaker procs, and can actually use the additional energy, it can be a good stopgap until you pick up more gear.

It fits pretty well in between fists of fury cooldowns.

I will most likely put in that the time to break it would be for a certain level of haste (which seems to be very high) or 2P bonus (which would be more attainable to the average player. Testing to come on that front, but point being that's my first thought as far as T14 4P. I'll amend the guide to remove the bit I think I added about breaking it early or not paying attention to it - intuition tells me that it would take much haste to make up for the energy effects.


Sadly my gear can't compare just yet with Mihir's - 2H for the loss, and private logs - but I can PM you a few names and their parses if you'd like.

Also, I've spoken with several well-geared (ie, avg iLev 505+) monks and they've said about the same thing - that it's difficult to reforge below 5K. However, the one same thing is always brought up - it is a matter of personal preference. I am at slightly higher Haste at the moment because I find that it's just more comfortable; I use my Energizing Brew and my Fists of Fury on cooldown, and still manage to run dry just because of - for lack of a better term - always hitting things. I don't energy cap, and I don't Chi cap - so again, personal preference. There's no "magic number".

Additionally: I worry less about energy capping. Chi capping is where the really damage loss exists.

I wrote the majority of that while I was half awake at 3 am during a stroke of brilliance. There isn't a noticeable difference between moving it below RSK but logically they'd function in the same way in that particular situation. I'll move it below RSK just for the sake of not causing confusion.

I saw a claim earlier today that it only takes us 15s to reach 10 stacks of TeB. Somehow, I thought it was bogus, so I started doing some mathing. Below, a table ignoring Tiger Palm and ignoring Fists of Fury to see how long before we reach 10 stacks. (More tables to follow this that gradually add those in). We will be ignoring boss mechanics, set bonuses, etc.

Time (Seconds)	I have X amount of Chi	X Chi Required for Next Stack	Total Stacks	Therefore, I use...
1	0	3	0	Jab
2	2	3	0	BoK
3	0	1	0	Jab
4	2	1	0	BOK
5	0	2	1	Jab
6	2	2	1	BOK
7	0	3	2	Jab
8	2	3	2	RSK
9	0	1	3	Jab
10	2	2	3	BoK
11	0	3	4	Jab
12	2	3	4	BoK
13	0	1	4	Jab
14	2	1	4	BoK
15	0	2	5	Jab
16	2	2	5	RSK
17	0	3	6	Jab
18	2	3	6	BoK
19	0	1	6	Jab
20	2	1	6	BoK
21	0	2	7	Jab
22	2	2	7	BoK
23	0	3	7	Jab
24	2	3	7	BoK
25	0	1	7	Jab
26	2	1	7	BoK
27	0	2	8	Jab
30	2	2	8	BoK
31	0	2	8	Jab
32	2	2	8	BoK
33	0	3	9	Jab
34	2	3	9	BoK
35	0	1	9	Jab
36	2	1	9	BoK
37	0	3	10	Jab

Now, we create another table to include TP, still neglecting FoF. Math changes somewhat:

Time (Seconds)	I have X amount of Chi	X Chi Required for Next Stack	Total Stacks	Therefore, I use...
1	0	3	0	Jab
2	2	3	0	TP
3	1	2	0	Jab
4	3	2	0	RSK
5	1	3	1	Jab
6	3	3	1	BOK
7	1	1	1	Jab
8	3	1	1	BoK
9	1	2	2	Jab
10	3	2	2	BoK
11	1	3	3	Jab
12	3	3	3	BoK
13	1	1	3	Jab
14	3	1	3	BoK
15	1	2	4	Jab
16	3	2	4	RSK
17	1	3	5	Jab
18	3	3	5	BoK
19	1	1	5	Jab
20	3	1	5	TP
21	2	3	6	BoK
22	0	1	6	Jab
23	2	1	6	BoK
24	0	2	7	Jab
25	2	2	7	BoK
26	0	3	8	Jab
27	2	3	8	BoK
30	0	2	8	Jab
31	2	2	8	BoK
32	0	3	9	Jab
33	2	3	9	BoK
34	0	1	9	Jab
35	2	1	10	BoK
36	0	2	10	Jab
37	2	2	11	BoK

Finally, we need to consider Fists of Fury. Ignoring boss mechanics (ie, cancelling the channel early), and ignoring energy, and still ignoring set bonuses. Also, considering FoF with a 3 second channel, as my 3.5 really skews results weird (so results may be off by 1s).

Time (Seconds)	I have X amount of Chi	X Chi Required for Next Stack	Total Stacks	Therefore, I use...
1	0	3	0	Jab
2	2	3	0	TP
3	1	2	0	Jab
4	3	2	0	RSK
5	1	3	1	Jab
6	3	3	1	FoF
7	-	-	-	FoF
8	-	-	-	FoF
9	0	3	2	Jab
10	2	3	2	BoK
11	0	1	2	Jab
12	2	1	2	RSK
13	0	2	3	Jab
14	2	2	3	BoK
15	0	3	4	Jab
16	2	3	4	BoK
17	0	1	4	Jab
18	2	1	4	Jab
19	4	1	4	BoK
20	2	2	5	TP
21	1	1	5	Jab
22	3	2	5	BoK
23	1	3	6	Jab
24	3	3	6	BoK
25	1	1	6	Jab
26	3	1	6	FoF
27	-	-	-	FoF
28	-	_	-	FoF
29	0	1	7	Jab
30	2	1	7	BoK
31	0	2	8	Jab
32	2	2	8	BoK
33	0	3	9	Jab
34	2	3	9	BoK
35	0	1	9	Jab
36	2	1	9	BoK
37	0	2	10	Jab

So now we see that FoF - while creating one charge itself - does in theory decrease the amount of charges we receive from a pure rotation of using 1 Chi for TP and 2 Chi for BoK/RSK. This begs the quest - does that make it a loss in overall damage? Honestly - I feel that a high haste, high crit build would see FoF as a gain, but a high haste, high mastery build may see it as a slight loss in this regard due to slower TeB generation. However, keep in mind our results are off by 1s due to FoF having a 3.5s cast, NOT a 3s cast. Therefore, we are looking at taking 38s to gain 10 charges, rather than 37, because the total time used for Fists of Fury is roughly 7 seconds rather than 6.

But here's yet another way to look at math: chi consumption per second. This table lists the ability name, the chi consumed per second, and the amount of time required in order to cast said ability (including seconds required to Jab/Expel Harm for more energy)

Ability	Chi Consumption/S	Time (s)
Fists of Fury	.6	5
Tiger Palm	.5	2
Blackout Kick/Rising Sun Kick	1	2

So, Blackout Kick/Rising Sun Kick uses the most Chi/second, with FoF second and Tiger Palm third.


Conclusion: Fists of Fury may still be an "average" part of our rotation due to "middle" Chi/s, but overall its chi/s isn't too far off from Tiger Palm. It would still be strong for a higher haste build, and we MUST keep in mind that it still does more damage/Chi than Blackout Kick. However, it does delay the amount of time it takes to reach 10 Tigereye Brew stacks.

--------------------------

Now, to add to the tables:

How many stacks should we enter a 30% Haste phase with?

A few variables:

• Lust lasts for 40s
• You will not be using Fists of Fury (makes that math MUCH too weird - I may math this in a bit later)
• You refresh TP prior to entering Lust, will need 3 chi for your next stack, will have 0 Chi available, and have 0 TeB stacks (the latter 3 not necessarily being ideal, but..)
• We enter lust having just spent 10 stacks of TeB, and do not use a GCD to refresh it (though, even using one to refresh it at 15s is roughly negligible).

Here's our now very familiar table from when I did not include Tiger Palm, with an edit at 20s to add that in. I have extended it to 40s to account for the full duration of Haste.

Time (Seconds)	I have X amount of Chi	X Chi Required for Next Stack	Total Stacks	Therefore, I use...
1	0	3	0	Jab
2	2	3	0	BoK
3	0	1	0	Jab
4	2	1	0	BoK
5	0	2	1	Jab
6	2	2	1	BOK
7	0	3	2	Jab
8	2	3	2	BoK
9	0	1	2	Jab
10	2	1	2	BoK
11	0	2	3	Jab
12	2	2	3	BoK
13	0	3	4	Jab
14	2	3	4	BoK
15	0	1	4	Jab
16	2	1	4	RSK
17	0	2	5	Jab
18	2	2	5	BoK
19	0	3	6	Jab
20	2	3	6	TP
21	1	2	6	Jab
22	3	2	6	BoK
23	1	3	7	Jab
24	3	3	7	BoK
25	1	1	7	Jab
26	3	1	7	BoK
27	1	2	8	Jab
30	3	2	8	BoK
31	1	3	9	Jab
32	3	3	9	BoK
33	1	2	9	Jab
34	3	2	9	BoK
35	1	3	10	Jab
36	3	3	10	BoK
37	1	1	10	Jab
38	3	1	10	BoK
39	1	2	11	Jab
40	3	2	11	TP

So, we generate ~ 11 stacks over the duration of Haste. Does that mean we need 20 stacks entering Haste? I believe so. Here's math to deduce why.

Tigereye Brew lasts 15s. That means, at the 15s mark, we need to have generated enough stacks to have 10 stacks. At that point in lust, we should be at a minimum of 4, perhaps 5 stacks (in realistic circumstances). However, we will need to refresh it again at the 31s mark (keeping in mind using 1 GCD at 15s), at which point we will have generated another 5 stacks.

So, here's what we're looking at.

Time (s)	Stacks Generated	Stacks Used
0s	0 stacks	10 Stacks
15s	4 stacks	20 stacks
31s	5 stacks	30 stacks

That's a lot of stacks used - but also quite a few generated. So, while 20 stacks generated may be more "comfortable", it seems that I was off in my intial estimation of needing 15 stacks. To have 10 stacks at 15s, we will have needed to enter with 16 stacks. Nevertheless, that would mean that at the 31s mark, we will only have 4 or 5 stacks. If we entered at 20 stacks, we would be able to use 9 or 10 stacks for the last portion of Haste.

However, if we use TeB just as Haste is used, we will be entering at 10 stacks. At 15s, we will be at 14, perhaps 15 stacks. Then, at 31, we would be at 9, maybe 10 stacks.

Therefore, we will want to be as close to 20 stacks at the beginning of Haste.

I wasn't considering leftover Chi that calculation - simply how many seconds it took to be able to use it, and how many Chi were used. Plus, it was more to compare FoF Chi consumption vs. BoK/RSK. I don't think that TP will ever become our main "way" to generate TeB stacks, nor will it fall out of our rotation. In other words - you can't do half of a Jab and still be able to TP. But, I think the "correct" answer for its chi consumption/s still lies between .5 and .7 somewhere - it's just not worth the time to find it at this point.

Correct. However - FoF is still more damage over time (and damage/Chi) than the same amount of Jab/BoK rotations. However - that one lost stack could plausibly change this. Additionally, our channel time may be even shorter at higher values of haste - which seems to be the direction we are headed with less Combo Breaker procs. ALSO, keep in mind that this is NEGLECTING combo breaker procs! During that 38s segment, you should have still received several.

Keep in mind that this is less than ideal circumstances. But, yes - early Haste phase will still be a disaster for WW in comparison to other classes. Raid groups which want their WW to do their best may want to consider holding Lust off until after the first minute of the fight. However, most raids are not going to take a single class into consideration.

In addition, it also displays that even this fix to TeB is still relatively weak for us as far as making us "bursty". The mastery change will be a major damage increase for us, but realistically I believe that it won't be "as much" of an increase of how many stacks we generate vs. what we have now - now, when it was 2 Chi/Stack, that would have cut the amount of time to generate 10 stacks very short in comparison.

See this post http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t131848-...2/#post2238832 and please remember that most recommendations in the guide are based off best in slot. Weights will constantly change with your characters current gear. Also any dummy parsing w/o full raid buffs and about 5 min of rotation excecution is not worthy to base any conclusions off of.

Like Schmoopy said, the recommendations are based on a higher gear level. Most monks feel comfortable above 4k haste, and in fact when you're getting into Heroics it's hard to stay below 5k even if you want to. SimC will almost always offer haste as your primary area of improvement on Patchwerk fights and often if you look at the scaling it's pretty similar with Crit, but Crit over Haste is a lot nicer on playstyle (easier to manage, and wins out when movement is involved)

I used Excel 2007 for it. Could you tell me what it is/isn't doing in 2010, so I can try to fix it?

edit: The gf has Office 2010 on her computer, and I just tested it. It works, just be sure you do the following:

Choose Yes.

It should then popup a box that says "Removed Feature: View from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part". Click "Close"

Then you should get an option button at the top for "Editing", or something similar to that. Click that, then choose to turn on macros if that button appears. After that, I don't see anything else that would cause any issues. The sheet then performs properly, as it does in 2007. The primary reason I used 2007 is because that's what's on my personal computer and the computer I use at work. I think it's the most pirated version of it. Perhaps I'll double check and re-write it for 2010, see if it has any comparability issues in 2007.

In case someone didn't see it yet, here's some details about our new legendary meta:

• The gem itself - not sure yet if the stamina on it is a placeholder or the final stat it will have; if we indeed get stamina instead of agility, I expect the proc to be potent enough to compensate.
• The trigger - chance on a melee attack to gain a stack of Capacitance; at 5 stacks we release a lightning strike on our current target. The wording of "chance on striking with an attack" makes me wonder if we'll be able to gain stacks on missed/dodged/parried strikes.
• The stacking buff - the buff itself.

Since more attacks = more procs with this gem, I guess it will push the value of haste even higher. It might also affect our FoF usage, since we will have to add the damage of potential lightning procs when comparing the usual auto-attacks, tiger strikes and 1.5 BoKs with one FoF channel.

We don't know any of the mechanics yet. E.g. if it uses RealPPM, if the PPM differs for different specs, if the lightning strike is affected by damage buffs such as mastery, if it can critically strike and how much damage it actually does. You cannot really draw any conclusions on stat changes until those specifics are known.

The one thing you can say pretty safely, though, is that it seems DPSers are losing the 3% crit damage bonus for as long as legendary meta gems are in use - this directly reduces the value of crit slightly.

If you are referring to the attackspeed buff then you misunderstand the buff since it should only shorten the swing timer and not affect your hastestat(and consequently energyregen) in anyway.