[WW] 5.2 -Enter the Fist - Page 13

Eyedore · 01/25/13, 6:01 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I'm not sure why the monk simcraft module is missing the 10% haste buff in the default module.

Probably why the model favors haste so highly.

I add 4250 to my haste rating before I simulate and it seems to value stats correctly.

You mean buffs like Swiftblade's Cunning?

They only increase your melee attack speed, not your haste. So the only thing it does for monks is increase melee and Tiger Strikes dps (and a slightly higher chance of trinket/weapon enchant procs).

I once made that mistake too

Saltycracker · 01/25/13, 9:55 AM

I was under the impression that Swiftblade's Cunning or any other melee attack speed buff also increased your energy generation. Is this not the case?

Photek · 01/25/13, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hidden

We don't know any of the mechanics yet. E.g. if it uses RealPPM, if the PPM differs for different specs, if the lightning strike is affected by damage buffs such as mastery, if it can critically strike and how much damage it actually does. You cannot really draw any conclusions on stat changes until those specifics are known.

The one thing you can say pretty safely, though, is that it seems DPSers are losing the 3% crit damage bonus for as long as legendary meta gems are in use - this directly reduces the value of crit slightly.

Despite what this item says in it's description Crown of Heaven - Item - World of Warcraft I think we can assume it will just add a socket to helmets like the weapon one do, so we can have both meta gems. Would be weird otherwise.

• promdates · 01/25/13, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I was under the impression that Swiftblade's Cunning or any other melee attack speed buff also increased your energy generation. Is this not the case?

The buff says "Increases the melee and ranged attack speed", not "increases haste by 10%". One doesn't do much, the other increases our energy regen.

Saltycracker · 01/25/13, 11:31 AM

I see. I was using an energy generation formula that Venyasure posted in this thread that had the 1.1 coefficient for stance of The ox, that i mistook for the melee buff.

Vishiz · 01/27/13, 10:47 PM

I've been spending a lot of time going over the current sim and find it very hard to believe those numbers are anywhere near accurate.

Is the CB: TP bug added in the current numbers? Seems like the uptime on the buff should be much higher that CB: BOK If you are ignoring it.

Tigereye Brew uptime = 50%, assuming this is with perfect play which makes sense. But hard to do with the current bug on CB:TP and a crit build. This could likely inflate the number quite a bit.

Now I'll be the first to admit, I'm not the smartest guy here. But am I the only one that thinks those numbers are extremely misleading? Usually when you look at a sim there will be several higher parses where luck factored in, or maybe they got some buffs that aren't in the sim. But this time even on the high end, Windwalkers are barely hitting those numbers.

Is there a way to take the SimC profile and make it a bit more realistic?

Mihir · 01/28/13, 7:07 AM

Looks like the CB:TP bug was hotfixed on live servers very recently! (current ptr build still has the bug tho)

Saltycracker · 01/28/13, 11:41 AM

@Vishiz

You can adjust the skill level of the sim in the input page, and change it from Elite to Good. I spent a lot of time with the simcraft module last weekend, and I can say that it is doin it rite, and I'm getting results that match my spreadsheet and what I would expect from a sim.

As far as I know the TP bug is not modeled in SimC. If you wanted to you could add a line in your input code to force the model tp /cancelaura these buffs as the first priority.

I've changed my tune on haste a little bit after looking at SimC. I'm running about 5800 haste currently and saw my output go up from a crit build.

Vishiz · 01/28/13, 3:36 PM

I was getting very close if not higher than sim results until I switched from a haste to a crit build and now it just seems unreachable. And current parses seem to agree.

Are we undervaluing haste, even with the current situation?

As far as skill level is concerned, i don't play flawlessly every pull, but I wouldn't think I'm playing bad enough for me to be as far off from the results I'm seeing in sims.

The difference between good and elite in my gear is <1k dps. 133.4good -> 134.2 elite with average being 131.1

If you go over some of the logs from garajal, and sim those players, you'll see that on the very high end they're hitting what they sim at. And most of these logs are with them critting over 50% of their rising sun kicks and high on their other abilities when your actual percentage should be around 40 or lower. So either there is something wrong, or the sim is getting a little more from something than we are.

Saltycracker · 01/28/13, 4:07 PM

I think we are undervaluing haste, but SimC overvalues haste because it is a robot and can play a perfect rotation against a non moving boss and doesnt use any cooldowns like TOK, Zenmed, or EH. One thing that I still want to do is create a SimC profile for MOP boss encounter, because none have any similarities to a Patchwerk, but I'm not a developer who knows C# and there is only so much you can do via the input interface. I think on average, I'm losing 2GCds/min to not being a robot just on a dummy, and in a real fight that is probably more.

I put a lot of time into my spreadsheet, and I think the first tab is good enough to play with for other monks. If you want to dig deeper, you can calibrate your rotation against SimC in the right hand tabs vs. a dummy and see where your haste breakpoints are:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0TktDUEE#gid=6

Obviously it depends on your mastery, but I'm seeing a haste/crit breakpoint (for a meatbag) at around 16-20% haste where you TP cap (assuming you arent /cancelauraing them) and a BOK breakpoint at about 45-50% haste. I'll check out live tonight and see if Mihir's report on the TP change is now live; if not, this makes haste worth more compared to crit.

I also need to update my 5.2 spreadsheet and see how this all translates to the mastery change.

Edit: One thing I do notice with haste is that the diminishing returns get larger and larger the closer you get to the cap. Even with my imperfect rotation, I'm still doing about 98.5% of the DPS of the SimC model, mostly due to sitting on energy, and timing of RSK which makes me use chi on BOK instead. Our haste caps aren't as unforgiving as say a caster where they get an extra tick, or reach the GCD and all of a sudden the stat isnt worth much. It's more of a gradient.

Vishiz · 01/28/13, 4:20 PM

Mihir is absolutely correct, the bug is no longer existent on live. Hopefully they get it fixed on the ptr too so it doesnt come back when 5.2 hits.

MomysLidlMonsta · 01/29/13, 4:06 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I think we are undervaluing haste, but SimC overvalues haste because it is a robot and can play a perfect rotation against a non moving boss and doesnt use any cooldowns like TOK, Zenmed, or EH.

ToK and EH are damage increases though if used properly. Also EH can't trigger CB, so using it makes Haste more valuable.

Saltycracker · 01/29/13, 11:04 AM

Expel Harm rarely breaks even with Jab in terms of damage done. The expected value of the mastery procs plus the damage that Jab does is pretty often less than the damage dealt by EH.

Here is our latest Tsulong wipes:
Expression Editor - 27-01 20:10 - Something Wicked - World of Logs

EH rarely hits for more than 50k, where a Jab has the damage potential of about 60k. EH is a DPS loss in this situation, but I use it more to help healing. This will most likely change in 5.2 due to Combo Breaker proc rate being much lower.

ToK is usually a DPS gain, but as I've learned from some pretty embarassing deaths, it is a survival cooldown and not a DPS cooldown.

Ruga · 01/29/13, 2:26 PM

Found an interesting Bug. Not sure if this is already known or not but here goes:

If you spam SFB (Unglyphed) outside of combat your Chi does not seem to deterioate.
So you can pretty much start with 5 Chi on every pull.

lairpie · 01/29/13, 4:27 PM

Yeah, that's pretty common to do. Mistweavers use SCK to do the same thing. Taunting a critter works too. It's kind of a lame mechanic and a small repayment for not being able to use our dps CD on the pull with heroism like every other spec.