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Old 01/31/13, 10:10 AM   #196
Dravvde
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Turalyon (EU)
Hoping someone can help me here. Few weeks ago I ran sims and my WW monk had crit as a higher stat weight over haste (i realise now that I had 8600 haste so ofc crit would be higher) Ive gemmed and reforged crit(6600 crit and haste 3700) my dps on sims comes in at 109800 about and this feels about right in raids. I checked out what my dps would look like If i reforged and gemmed back to haste and simcraft comes in at 11600 not a huge upgrade.

Im not an expert in simcraft but I have been trying to figure out how to find the "soft caps" for haste to know at which point I can reforge the remaining haste into crit.

How can I find soft caps on simcraft and how do I manage to load a premade char into simcraft (ive often used ask mr robot and changed stat weights and optimized then load them into simcraft, but I can not get this to work with a certain haste value and rest in crit) that ive set with haste at say 4500 and reforged all other to crit?

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Old 01/31/13, 11:28 AM   #197
LightforgedUS
Glass Joe
 
Orc Monk
 
Daggerspine
As we've discussed in the past, the haste cap for DPS Monks is a little nebulous. Our haste "cap" is the point where you cannot manage your energy regeneration level; this point slides around with a number of factors. In a Patchwerk-esque scenario, your luck with Combo Breaker procs is the main sliding point. Other than that, movement and refunded energy from failed attacks are also factors.

An ideal scenario pretty much is that, assuming no FoF, you're either just able or just about able to Jab after a Jab->RSK/BoK Cycle, but your main focus is managing your energy regen. I would say that the best course is to just try things out and see how it feels. Remember that SimC is a robot and manages everything perfectly - don't go with SimC says if you can't manage it just because it says it's better.

Chiforged WW Monk of <Five Man> (Daggerspine US)

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Old 01/31/13, 12:24 PM   #198
Dravvde
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Turalyon (EU)
The problem that I am having is that after changing to crit, I feel I do more dps then I did as a haste spec, its very rare I seem to be energy starved. But its for this reason I would love to try and sim my char but with different values without having to regem and reforge everything in live and import and try.

So far ive not found away to trial this as I can not do it via ask mr robot. Chardev and Rawr seem to awalways come back stating they can not access my character from battlenet.

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Old 01/31/13, 12:51 PM   #199
Vishiz
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Dravvde View Post
Hoping someone can help me here. Few weeks ago I ran sims and my WW monk had crit as a higher stat weight over haste (i realise now that I had 8600 haste so ofc crit would be higher) Ive gemmed and reforged crit(6600 crit and haste 3700) my dps on sims comes in at 109800 about and this feels about right in raids. I checked out what my dps would look like If i reforged and gemmed back to haste and simcraft comes in at 11600 not a huge upgrade.

Im not an expert in simcraft but I have been trying to figure out how to find the "soft caps" for haste to know at which point I can reforge the remaining haste into crit.

How can I find soft caps on simcraft and how do I manage to load a premade char into simcraft (ive often used ask mr robot and changed stat weights and optimized then load them into simcraft, but I can not get this to work with a certain haste value and rest in crit) that ive set with haste at say 4500 and reforged all other to crit?
This question has been answered probably 7 times in this thread but I'll be good guy greg here.

The "soft cap" people are referring to is when you aren't able to spend as much energy as you are gaining, causing you to effectively lose some of the value of your haste. This number varies on a fight to fight basis. Low movement/heavy uptime fights you can get away with 6k+ haste. And some heavy movement fights you wont want anymore than 4-5k. Theoretically the better you are, the more haste you can add to your rotation. Find a number you are comfortable with and stick with it.

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Old 01/31/13, 2:11 PM   #200
tastysnack
Kind of hates everything.
 
tastysnack's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Dravvde View Post
The problem that I am having is that after changing to crit, I feel I do more dps then I did as a haste spec, its very rare I seem to be energy starved. But its for this reason I would love to try and sim my char but with different values without having to regem and reforge everything in live and import and try.

So far ive not found away to trial this as I can not do it via ask mr robot. Chardev and Rawr seem to awalways come back stating they can not access my character from battlenet.
I believe Chardev is hurting for updates right now. You'll probably notice that it doesn't even have much current MoP gear.

I won't state much more than that, simply because this isn't a thread about SimC. But essentially, I typically edit the output after importing a character - the profile, I think is the technical term. Change around gems/enchants, and then edit the values of haste/crit/etc. according to what I've changed.

It's pretty typical to deal more damage after changing to crit from haste. It sounds to me that 3.7K is your comfort zone. I personally have slightly more, simply because I've recently been working on less movement-intensive progression (rather, fights where I am constantly hitting things without downtime).

Calligraphy, Windwalker/Brewmaster of <Post Mortem>
Watch me raid Sun-Thursday 8:30-11:30 PST at my stream. We're sitting at 9/13 HM!

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Old 02/04/13, 7:47 PM   #201
Saltycracker
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Monk
 
Whisperwind
Played with Storm, Earth and Fire this weekend.

Our clones do not benefit from trinket procs, nor can you buff them. Something I need to check is whether their autoattacks are copied from the original monk, or if they are hasted, basically if they benefit from bloodlust/heroism.

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Analyze - 02-02 16:33 - Apple Bottom Jeans - World of Logs

Twitter - @Saltyeric
Monk Windwalker Spreadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sNVJSZlE#gid=6

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Old 02/06/13, 11:07 AM   #202
Moozhe
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Monk
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
Played with Storm, Earth and Fire this weekend.

Our clones do not benefit from trinket procs, nor can you buff them. Something I need to check is whether their autoattacks are copied from the original monk, or if they are hasted, basically if they benefit from bloodlust/heroism.

Logs:
Analyze - 02-02 16:33 - Apple Bottom Jeans - World of Logs
I assume they work like Xuen where they should inherit your attack power, crit, and haste. The only buffs they should have are buffs like Tiger Power.

It does seem like you hit a bit harder on average than your clones, but last week I tested that they don't benefit from Tigereye Brew so that might be why. Xuen also doesn't benefit from Tigereye Brew, but in his case it's fine. In the case of your clones, they should benefit from everything you do and if they don't it could quickly be a DPS loss to use it.

I worry about fights where hunter pets don't benefit from mechanics like Corrupted Essence on Protectors of the Endless, Energized Tiles on Stone Guards, and I think Weak Points on Garalon. Storm, Earth, and Fire will probably have the same problem with fights like these.

The immediate concern is whether they aren't benefitting from certain things on a fight with no gimmicks. It's difficult to do testing without getting large sample sizes because pretty much all of their abilities are based on weapon damage so they have a large range of values.

Spinning Fire Blossom is one of the best abilities to test on live because it is not based on weapon damage so the damage is always the same until your buffs/stats change. But since it's been changed to weapon damage on the PTR and your clones do not mirror it anyway we can't use that.

Try testing with Crackling Jade Lightning. I don't think it's based on weapon damage and I'm pretty sure your clones will mirror it. So a quick test of CJL with trinket proc and CJL without trinket proc would probably do. We also need to test for Stormlash, Skull Banner, Bloodlust, and Virmen's Bite potion.

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Old 02/06/13, 11:55 AM   #203
lairpie
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
Try testing with Crackling Jade Lightning. I don't think it's based on weapon damage and I'm pretty sure your clones will mirror it. So a quick test of CJL with trinket proc and CJL without trinket proc would probably do. We also need to test for Stormlash, Skull Banner, Bloodlust, and Virmen's Bite potion.
On live I tested (for other reasons) CJL last weekend. Definitely not based on weapon damage. Definitely was within 1-2 points of damage every tick (with no trinket/weapon procs), so should be a decent thing to test unless they've changed it on the PTR.

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Old 02/06/13, 12:58 PM   #204
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Tried the tier set on PTR today. The energy orbs from 2p look exactly like chi/healing orbs from Afterlife, but slightly smaller and bright yellow in colour. It might be a little tricky to notice them in the heat of a 25 man encounter. Couldn't test the 4p bonus unfortunately. It seems to be disabled right now (in 30 minutes of killing mobs I never got more than 1 stack of TEB at a time). Also, despite the changes to mastery and what TEB tooltips say, it still takes 4 chi spent to gain 1 stack of TEB.


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Old 02/06/13, 1:36 PM   #205
Eyedore
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Monk
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
If the SEF clones don't get increased dps from Tigereye Brew that will really reduce it's usefulness.
Lets say you do 150k dps without using TeB, and that TeB will give you an overall 20% damage incease.

single target dps: 150 * 1.20 = 180 k dps
1 SEF clone: (150 * 1.2 * 0.60) + (150 * 0.60) = 108 + 90 = 198 k dps
2 SEF clones: (150 * 1.2 * 0.45) + 2 * (150 * 0.45) = 81 + 2 * 67.5 = 216 k dps
% dps increase:
1 SEF clone: 198 / 180 = 10%
2 SEF clones: 216 / 180 = 20%

Totally unimpressive. Or am I missing something?

ps: still ptr ofcourse, so maybe they still need to implement TeB for clones.

Last edited by Eyedore : 02/08/13 at 7:22 PM.

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Old 02/06/13, 5:14 PM   #206
Iroared
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Monk
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
Eyedore: afaik the penalty for using two spirits is 55%, not 60%, but I agree that it looks weak at the moment, although they do seem to like nerfing cleaves.


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Old 02/08/13, 7:28 PM   #207
Eyedore
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Monk
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Thanks for the notice Iroared, I also read it at mmo-champion now
I changed the 2 clone numbers, making it go up from 6.7% to 20% dps increase, 1 clone numbers are the same.

I still hope they will let the clones benefit from TeB so we get the full 20%/35% dps increase. If not, if possible don't use TeB during SEF as long as you don't cap TeB stacks.

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Old 02/08/13, 8:50 PM   #208
 promdates
Soda Popinski
 
promdates's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Turalyon
There's a few new trinkets (about 4-5) from 5.2 that I'm going to be adding to the spreadsheet. Give me a bit to get them in, but I'm pretty sure it won't be totally up to date until SimC and the 5.2 gear are finalized.


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Old 02/13/13, 6:28 PM   #209
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
GC spilled some info about trinket and legenrady meta procs on the forums. The whole list is here.

What I find a bit interesting and strange is that none of the trinkets (save for the Shado-Pan valor one) have a long ICD: the two with an ICD are at 22 seconds, but with a low proc rate. Am I right in thinking that this will make those trinkets somewhat unpredictable?

Last edited by Crevan : 02/13/13 at 7:10 PM.


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Old 02/13/13, 8:42 PM   #210
 promdates
Soda Popinski
 
promdates's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
GC spilled some info about trinket and legenrady meta procs on the forums. The whole list is here.

What I find a bit interesting and strange is that none of the trinkets (save for the Shado-Pan valor one) have a long ICD: the two with an ICD are at 22 seconds, but with a low proc rate. Am I right in thinking that this will make those trinkets somewhat unpredictable?
It makes me super happy in the pants that they're so forward with item proc information like this now. I'll get the sheet hopefully finished up tonight or tomorrow.


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