Spending TEB at the beginning seems like a waste in this scenario: you'll get only 10 seconds of TEB while sitting at low energy regen and crit chance and it will leave you without any stacks in case of back-to-back procs, which still can happen, unless they don't change the ICD as well. Currently, it's about 1 RPPM increased by aspd bonus from 2H and melee haste, so it can proc often. Just spend that 10 seconds refreshing your TP and gathering some Chi for BoK spam.

Salty, that's true. The trinket's kinda broken in this way: monks can pool some TEB and then use it in described manner to benefit from each proc and creating HUGE spikes of damage. If I were Blizz, I would consider either nerfing the trinket itself or its interaction with WW abilities (either dynamic TEB or lower secondary stat bonus for WW). With 20k secondary stats available (with crazy yellow gem stacking) WW can easily come to 6k haste, 6.9k crit and 7.1k mastery resulting in - holy mother of god - 32900 mastery. If I made no mistakes, that's 54,8 mastery points on top of 13 we get from base mastery and raid buff, which is not accounted by rune. Rounding up to 68 total mastery points in sum, that's 13,6% damage increase per stack of TEB or 136% damage increase at full 10 stacks for 15 seconds. With the way RoRO scales with our stats, it's improbable to see any upgrades to it in further patches unless it's gonna be nerfed. So, I definitely expect some of the aforementioned changes.

PS with weapon swaps allowed, best tactic is using 2hander to force faster trinket proc, using your best weapons during empowered TEB and switching to 1handers if you're out of TEB stacks to lower the chance of proc.

Its interesting how the change swaps RoR from being good for specs where 1 secondary stat is way better than the others, to being good even if that's not the case. The more even your secondary stats are, the more raw stat increase doubling the lower 2 gives you assuming you keep them close. The more 1 stat reign supreme (assas rogues, ferals, hunters, maybe others I just don't know much about the others as we don't have them) the more benefit per point shifted you get.

This weapon swapping brings back memories of how rogues used to swap to double instant poisons once we had a 5 stack of deadly in the second half of Wrath. Back then the developers put an end to the practice because we had a script/addon that automated the whole process. But even if we do it manually, I still think they'd frown upon it.

During the Mists beta frost death knights were in a similar situation (I don't remember the specifics, but there were also plans to switch between DW and 2H at certain points in rotation), but in the end the two subspecs were shaped to discourage this. I am pretty sure druids still swap weapons for some special cooldown usage, but I don't know the details here. Long story short - if constant weapons swapping becomes a part of our gameplay, it might attract the developers' attention to do something about it.

Staying on the topic of weapons, it occurred to me recently that shifting trinkets to an RPPM model could bring 2H performance closer to DW. A 40% increase to attack speed should make trinket procs happen 40% more often, significantly increasing their uptime and average benefit. Here's an interesting hypothetical example.

When I did some calculations for Talisman of Bloodlust a little while ago, I came to the conclusion that the normal version would provide slightly less than 1500 haste on average, which is less than the value of one stack of the buff. That was for a DW setup.

Now let's consider a 2H user with this trinket. The buff lasts 10 seconds and is on 3 RPPM chance, which means that it has a 3 * 10 / 60 = 0.5 probability to proc in 10 seconds before haste effects. To guarantee a proc in those 10 seconds, we'd need to double the RPPM value, or in other words, apply 200% haste to it. Normally, this level of haste is unlikely even for a 2H monk, but let's imagine a tank and spank fight with 100% uptime on the boss and Heroism/Bloodlust on the pull. For the first 40 seconds, we will have an extra 30% haste.

The probability of a proc occurring at least once during time period T is p = RPPD * haste * T / 60. I'll assume 5005 haste rating (I'll show why this amount a little later), which will give us a total of (1 + 5005/42500)*1.1*1.3*1.4 ~= 2.34 haste during heroism. In fact, this much haste is enough to lower the expected time to proc to 9 seconds during the first 36 seconds of the fight (accounting for the accumulated haste stacks from the trinket). We would have 11157 haste rating with 4 seconds of heroism remaining. At this point, our haste would be (1 + 11157/42500)*1.1*1.3*1.4 ~= 2.53. During these 4 seconds, we'll have a 51% chance to get the fifth stack of the buff. In the following 6 seconds, with 1.94 haste, we'll have a 58% chance of getting the fifth stack.

So, heroism/bloodlust on the pull would allow us to get a full 5-stack of the buff, for a total of 7690 extra haste rating. Adding the 5005 we have on gear gives us 12695 haste rating, which translates to (1+12695/42500)*1.1*1.4 ~= 2 haste - just enough to keep getting a proc every 10 seconds to refresh the 5-stack.

Will this be competitive with other trinket options? Perhaps. I'll try to run sims with this setup when a Simcraft build with implemented trinkets comes out. Though I'm more excited about the possibility that 2H and DW might break even this tier.

... That's what it was about. Switching to 2handers to improve the chance of proccing RoRO and then switching to 1handers to improve the damage during TEB. Given that one would prefer not to activate TEB outside RoRO, of course.

Talisman seems to be the most attractive contender for Brewmasters trinket slots, but it ruins RoRO for WW and 12k haste is obviously beyond caps. Do you mind if I quote this in neighbouring BM topic?

Just doing dailies and stuff on PTR, I've found myself pooling TeB Stacks (Just sitting at 20) for RoRO and I don't think that's the way to go. I almost want to say that the best approach is to always have 10 stacks available for RoRO procs; at 20 stacks or whenever a damage burst comes through, pop TeB, and always blow TeB at the end of RoRO. Ideally you should always have > 10 stacks so when RoRO fires, so we get full benefit of RoRO and still maximize TeB outside of RoRO. Sometimes we will get unlucky with this approach (just blown normal TeB at bloodlust with 11 stacks and then rune procs).

As it was mentioned earlier, the best way to go is to sit on maximum resources. Have 3+ Chi at all times and activate regular TEB at 19 stacks. Even if RoRO procs immediately after regular TEB, you'll have about 10 seconds to build that 10th stack, which is already there in form of unspent Chi.

Updated my Windwalker Spreadsheet for 5.2:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sNVJSZlE#gid=6

I added a section where you can now copy/paste your simcraft results into the spreadsheet to see how your own scaling works. Be mindful, for this version I ran a sim with no use of TEB so that the math would be easier in the spreadsheet; if you want to play around with it, be sure to do the same.

Like Mihir was saying, haste provides more than half the DPS benefit than agility up until the haste softcap (19-20%) so it would probably be best to gem haste until that point.

Haste > Mastery > Haste over soft cap = Crit. Haste and Crit are pretty even after the cap, but I'm going to lean more on haste due to interactions with mastery.

RoO looks amazing for us generally, and you should fight tooth and nail to get one. Used optimally with mostly T14 heroic gear, looks like a 25% DPS increase. It will probably be around 10-15% in practice based on how much haste we need to gear for.

T14 4Pc > T15 2Pc if you have to make any tough decisions with gearing, but tier pieces should be pretty scarce in the first few weeks of the tier so dont feel too bad holding on to the old one.

The legendary meta gem should be a no brainer, but it scales with all of our stats, and even better if you can make it go off in a TEB window.

Ascendance still looks like the way to go throughout the patch unless we can't drop our haste below 30% haste or something dumb like that.

I see that SEF is getting TEB buffs now, so awesome! Storm, Earth and Fire will be very gimmicky especially given how heavily we will rely on TEB, and their non interaction with trinkets. I don't see it being very useful in the new raid based on my own testing; the only thing it is good for is padding meters (at least to me), so if that's your thing, do it up.

*edit* The spreadsheet should be shared now, and visible to everyone. If you want to make changes, you can copy it into your Google Drive to sandbox.

I need to verify Moozhe, but I did some testing in early Feb. and the clones weren't scaling. I've been told by a few people that they do get their own TEB buff now, so I'll check out the PTR tonight.

Primordius is the only boss so far that I could see the copies being useful, DPSing down oozes while you are on the boss fully transformed, but your copies despawn once the target has been killed. I've only done testing on about half the bosses though.

I really doubt that will hold up true. Crit and Mastery influence each other a lot more than Haste (over the soft cap). Both scale very linearly and the more of an stat you get, the more you increase that linear coefficient, contrary to Haste. Crit should be ahead Haste over the soft cap pretty safely.

By "inherit", do you mean "snapshot at cast" or "updated dynamically with your stats"?

They would totally benefit from that proc; it's crit. What are you seeing that they wouldn't benefit from? "attack power, crit, haste, hit, and expertise, and I think weapon damage, [and Tiger Power, Tigereye Brew]" sounds like... everything. They don't seem to Chi Torpedo, or inherit buffs that don't affect hunter pets (are there any this tier?), but that seems like it. Sure seems like they'll benefit from pretty much everything.