Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Monks

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/04/13, 6:12 PM   #286
Mihir
Piston Honda
 
Mihir's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Dopameany View Post
Where did that come from? Here's what I have from my in-game tooltips.

Jab on average hits for 14683
RSK on average hits for 125455
BOK on average hits for 69698

SCK on average hits for 17130, with a 3 hits, over 2 seconds.

Take a 6-second window (assuming TP is up):

Jab -> RSK -> Jab -> BOK -> Jab -> BOK = 3x 14683 + 2x 69698 + 125455 = 308900 dmg

RSK over 6 seconds is 3 casts of ticks each = 3 * 3 * 17130 = 154170 PER TARGET

At two targets, you're looking at 308340 SCK DMG Vs. 308900 ST DMG -> Breaking Exactly Even

Three would be a huge increase.

What did I miss?
Also keep in mind you're not auto-attacking during SCK.

Netherlands Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/13, 6:25 PM   #287
Dopameany
Glass Joe
 
Troll Monk
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
Also keep in mind you're not auto-attacking during SCK.
Ok, so how much is that worth over 6 seconds? Would be willing to be its not 150k (300k single target dmg over 6 sec versus 450k SCK 3 targets over 6 sec). It would probably be enough to make it not worth it though on 2 targets. I get that the chi generation rate isn't as high as a single-target rotation, and with the mastery rework that's definitely a consideration (especially on 2), but you're probably going to have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis of the duration of the AOE phase for 3 targets. The only thing I see SCK not winning on 3 targets for is due to mastery.

It's also going to be a case-by-case basis to use SEF or not, seeing as it's 2 GCD's to get them both up, and then you need to reapply TP and RSK to each. That's probably a DPS loss over a short-term AOE phase of SCK, unless the SEF are put up during movement.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/13, 6:44 PM   #288
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Bemxuu View Post
Goodbye, Tiger Strikes and Way of the Monk buffing our trinket proc rate!
Funny. Before this change, 2H and DW were simming almost equally with 5.2 gear. Now we're back to a 5% difference. The changes to the meta numbers are a 36% proc chance nerf (accounting for the higher base chance).


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/13, 7:01 PM   #289
Bemxuu
Von Kaiser
 
Bemxuu's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Ясеневый лес (EU)
Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
Funny. Before this change, 2H and DW were simming almost equally with 5.2 gear. Now we're back to a 5% difference. The changes to the meta numbers are a 36% proc chance nerf (accounting for the higher base chance).
Expected, though. It solves all the problems with players pushing the limits of theoretical DPS by means of all the tricks like weapon juggling or lining up FoF with Tiger Strikes to extend 50% aspd buff. Now RoRO is a matter of pure luck.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/13, 8:47 PM   #290
Whosbouncin
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Silvermoon
Any possible ETA for the 5.2 information? mrrobot has mastery as pretty low in priority, and seeing Reorigination, I am fairly certain it would be an increase for DPS to go with a 2h staff at that point in time due to procs and reducing haste/crit to 0 for procs. Allowing you to keep your constant melee attack speed buff from Way of the Monk, but I would like to confirm.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/04/13, 8:48 PM   #291
Moozhe
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Monk
 
Area 52
Regarding SCK vs 3 targets, it is a DPS increase.

A great test environment is the roof of the gate between Valley of Honor and The Drag in Orgrimmar. There are 3 boss-level training dummies in range of Spinning Crane Kick.

Even with a whopping 3600 mastery on my gear (which is useless when spamming SCK), it is still a significant DPS increase to SCK instead of our single target rotation. Pretty sure it's in the 25-35% range.

After the patch with our new mastery I'm sure SCK will be even better vs 3 targets.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 12:05 AM   #292
Bloodvalor
Von Kaiser
 
Bloodvalor's Avatar
 
Undead Monk
 
Shadowmoon
Why is it that during 5.1 it was accepted that somewhere between 4-5k haste was generally ideal, but now in 5.2 it is 5-7k?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 12:07 AM   #293
tastysnack
Kind of hates everything.
 
tastysnack's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Bloodvalor View Post
Why is it that during 5.1 it was accepted that somewhere between 4-5k haste was generally ideal, but now in 5.2 it is 5-7k?
5-7K is more of an estimate. I can see even higher levels being comfortable.

The change comes due to the flat 12% with Combo Breaker (vs. ~20% in raids) and the interaction between haste and mastery.

It still comes down to the same bottom line: Whatever you are most comfortable with.

Calligraphy, Windwalker/Brewmaster of <Post Mortem>
Watch me raid Sun-Thursday 8:30-11:30 PST at my stream. We're sitting at 9/13 HM!

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 3:26 AM   #294
opinel
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Sargeras (EU)
Updated Meta Gem proc rates :

Capacitive
1.136 Combat
1.789 Assassination
1.114 Subtlety
1.339 Arms
1.152 Fury SMF
1.257 Fury TG
1.721 Feral Cat
1.532 Frost DK 2H
1.134 Frost DK DW
0.838 Unholy
1.295 Retribution
0.809 Enhancement
1.087 Monkbot
0.950 Beast Mastery
1.107 Marksmanship
0.950 Survival

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 6:34 AM   #295
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Assuming 6000 haste rating (14.12% haste), this corresponds to 21*1.1412*1.087=26.05 RPPM, gaining a stack every 60/26.05~=2.3 seconds and a lightning strike every 11.5 seconds. Under heroism, this becomes 21*1.48*1.087~=33.86 RPPM, 60/33.86~=1.77 sec and 8.86 sec respectively.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 7:22 AM   #296
gahddo
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
<HC>
Burning Legion
RoR is still sitting strong, just with the new fotm spec being dw instead of 2h. I've got it at 210k with the next best, and 226k with. Latest iterations at making the trinket stupidly op:
RoR cheats - Pastebin.com

Adding chi wave also drastically lowers the haste soft cap because all the cap really is, is the point at which you are global locked. Chi wave = less free globals = lower haste required to hit cap. This is all assuming optimal FoF usage as well, of course. After I fixed the action list issue causing it to use FoF off cd, the value of its use went up drastically, which means it REALLY is optimal to use it. Uhhh nothing else is coming to mind right now. Oh, I updated simc and the action list to reflect the hotfix to the chi tracking bug.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 8:46 AM   #297
Bemxuu
Von Kaiser
 
Bemxuu's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Ясеневый лес (EU)
Gahddo, great work, I totally suck at simcrafting, so I'm happy to see someone simming RoRO, but I have few questions:
1. Optimal use of RoR requires mastery to be just slightly above haste/crit (whichever is highest) and preferably haste and crit should be nearly equal as well. So why are the stats skewed towards haste so much? It's also more realistic to maintain rotation with lowered haste in favor of higher crit.
2. actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60 - really? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to drink Virmens when RoRO-buffed TEB is up as it buffs our damage more than lust? Potion can be used once within a fight, so we're not hurting its uptime by doing so.
3. Why won't you sim with Tia-Tia and Zeeg (they have yellow gem slots)? Is it because wowdb and wowhead do not have info on source of these weapons?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 9:26 AM   #298
Vishiz
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Kel'Thuzad
As far as haste goes, on the ptr I've been doing pretty well with around 8k, however this was with t15 2 and 4 set. With the current tier I would stay around 6-7k.

As far as RoR goes, I opted to let my crit stay pretty low while keeping haste just under mastery so you can recover faster from having low energy after the proc if you had to spend energy during it (durumu or any adds you have to burn come to mind) If it were a patchwerk fight I can see crit and haste being closer together, but when there is RNG and different fight mechanics. I view haste as a safer stat to maximize rather than keep it even with crit. When you're talking about crit you are adding a lot more RNG into your rotation if you're relying on a big hit after rune proc(and they are huge!)

I would like to see some sort of math on just what you could get done in those 15 seconds after at different haste levels to get the optimal use out of it. If you're sitting at 4 chi before the end of the proc should you jab again to get a 5th so you can possibly get one more ability off during it? Should you Energizing brew during the trinket proc to sustain some dps or during the following TEB since the value of the added energy will be higher?

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 9:48 AM   #299
opinel
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Sargeras (EU)
Tia-Tia apparently drops from Council of Elders. The problem with that weapon is the secondary stats, Hit and Expertise being on already several items, and particularly Renataki's Soul Charm (which appears to be the second BiS trinket).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/13, 9:50 AM   #300
Bemxuu
Von Kaiser
 
Bemxuu's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Ясеневый лес (EU)
During the proc itself you are left with 0 haste and crit ratings and all the secondary stats invested in mastery which does nothing outside of TEB buff. No rocket surgery, you should be pulling resources to spend during that damage spike rather than spending them to even out the damage pattern. I'd say the best result on last second of RoRO is 5 Chi, 1 sec 'til energy cap and FoF and Chi wave with less than 13 seconds cooldown left in case of FoF snapshotting TEB state and 10 if it doesn't. It's even better if EB cools down during the proc, but given how unreliable is the proc, one should not delay EB waiting for the proc - I ended up waiting for nearly 3 minutes during one of my naive raidboss dummy test.

@opinel there's still a +hit enchant on cloak, feet and legs are not reforged off hit, in this simulation Bad Juju is used a second trinket to compliment RoRO, so no problems with hit there. Same for exp - there are few pieces to reforge exp off.

Last edited by Bemxuu : 03/05/13 at 9:57 AM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Monks

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Windwalker (DPS): a flurry of tender fisting. nextormento Monks 571 01/02/13 6:52 PM