[WW] 5.2 -Enter the Fist - Page 22

Saltycracker · 03/06/13, 8:28 PM

Chi Wave damage looks comparable to live in the SimC model. I must have been looking at old data. It's damage per execute is slightly less than BOK+dot. Here is my action list in SimC"

actions.st=blackout_kick,if=buff.combo_breaker_bok.react&energy.time_to_max<2
actions.st+=/rising_sun_kick
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=(chi>=3&energy.time_to_max<=2&!talent.ascension.enabled)|(chi>=4&energy.time_to_max<=2&talent.ascension.enabled)
actions.st+=/fists_of_fury,if=!buff.energizing_brew.up&energy.time_to_max>(4)&buff.tiger_power.remains>(4)
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.combo_breaker_bok.react
actions.st+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled
actions.st+=/tiger_palm,if=buff.combo_breaker_tp.react
actions.st+=/jab,if=talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=3
actions.st+=/jab,if=!talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=2
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=((energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.rising_sun_kick.remains)))>=40)|(chi=4&!talent.ascension.enabled)|(chi=5&talent.ascension.enabled)

Drezion · 03/06/13, 8:36 PM

Hotfix from today:

"Stance of the Fierce Tiger now increases the damage done by 10% (was 20%)."

Patch 5.2 Hotfixes: March 5 - World of Warcraft

Eyedore · 03/07/13, 5:03 AM

I found that the following addition makes it slightly better:

actions.st+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled&energy.time_to_max>(1)

Eyedore · 03/07/13, 5:59 AM

If was wondering if there would be an easy way to compare haste with mastery.

I would think that if you have 10% haste, you will do 10% more damage. At the moment I can't think of anything that would make this untrue, so I'll take that as a fact for the rest of this post (but please correct me if this assumption is wrong). I will assume the same goes for crit.

I am using my own energy spreadsheet for easy calculations here: monk_energy_5.2.xlsx
In the spreadsheet don't forget it will add the 3000 mastery from the raidbuff to the mastery field, so fill in 3000 if you want to caculate stuff for 6000 mastery.

0 haste, 0 mastery: TeB damage per minute will be 9.27%
0 haste, 6000 mastery: TeB damage per minute will be 16.41 (of which 7.13% is from the 6000 mastery rating)
6000 haste, 0 mastery: 14.12% haste, TeB damage per minute will be 10.48%, 10.48 - 9.27 = 1.21% because of haste
6000 haste, 6000 mastery: you will have 14.12% haste and TeB damage will increase to 18.54% (8.06% from mastery)

6000 haste = 14.12 + 1.21 = 15.33% damage increase
6000 mastery = 8.06% damage increase
6000 crit = 10% damage increase

Am I making some big mistakes here?

Visian · 03/07/13, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Eyedore

if you have 10% haste, you will do 10% more damage.

Not quite as a fair amount of damage comes from RSK which only scales with crit and mastery (of the secondary stats).
Also keep in mind that there is an amount of synergy between haste and mastery since more haste will mean faster generation of TeB stacks which will in turn make mastery more valuable.

Saltycracker · 03/07/13, 11:41 AM

If you are talking about autoattacks, then yea they scale linearly. In terms of our whole rotation, we get diminishing returns as we stack stats.

The more haste you have, the more your rotation pushes back against you, so there is a point of diminishing returns. Take a look at my spreadsheet to see how damage scales with haste (Column U):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sNVJSZlE#gid=6

The green box is also where I calculate my incremental stat weights (1% gain)

Crit is not a 1:1 either, you can calculate the incremental gain from this formula: ((1.06*%Crit+1.01)/(1.06*%Crit+1))-1

The 1.06 is from our meta gem.

Mastery depends on how many TEB stacks you are generating: TEB/4*Mastery%

Eyedore · 03/07/13, 12:58 PM

@Vision:
That RSK does not benfit from haste is a good point. RSK does about 18% of our damage, so I would have to do the haste % times 0.82 to get the damage increase from haste then.
I allready incorporated the synergy between haste and mastery.

@ Salty:
I did not include the meta gem as we will be replacing that at some point with the legendary gem. But you are right that the amount of dps increase from 1% crit will depend on how much crit you allready have, same goes for haste ofcourse.

That is a nice spreadsheet you made btw.

I don't really understand why mastery is so good though.
6000 mastery will still only increase our dps by 8.06% (if we have 6000 haste as well)

Or is there one more thing im overlooking?

Saltycracker · 03/07/13, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Eyedore

I don't really understand why mastery is so good though.
6000 mastery will still only increase our dps by 8.06% (if we have 6000 haste as well)

Mastery is as good as you want it to be, but it is a good stat even if you are using it non optimally.

6000 mastery is 2% boost per stack of TEB. Let's say for instance that you are generating 18 TEB stacks per minute. If you keep maximum uptime of your TEB buff, that will be about 4.5 stacks of TEB whenever you activate it.

2% damage gain * 4.5 stacks = 9% overall gain.

0% haste is about 16 TEB/min -> 8% overall gain.

A lot of the strength of mastery is the timing with boss mechanics and trinket procs to get multiplicative gain out of it.

Kraun · 03/07/13, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

Chi Wave damage looks comparable to live in the SimC model. I must have been looking at old data. It's damage per execute is slightly less than BOK+dot. Here is my action list in SimC"

actions.st=blackout_kick,if=buff.combo_breaker_bok.react&energy.time_to_max<2
actions.st+=/rising_sun_kick
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=(chi>=3&energy.time_to_max<=2&!talent.ascension.enabled)|(chi>=4&energy.time_to_max<=2&talent.ascension.enabled)
actions.st+=/fists_of_fury,if=!buff.energizing_brew.up&energy.time_to_max>(4)&buff.tiger_power.remains>(4)
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.combo_breaker_bok.react
actions.st+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled
actions.st+=/tiger_palm,if=buff.combo_breaker_tp.react
actions.st+=/jab,if=talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=3
actions.st+=/jab,if=!talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=2
actions.st+=/blackout_kick,if=((energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.rising_sun_kick.remains)))>=40)|(chi=4&!talent.ascension.enabled)|(chi=5&talent.ascension.enabled)

Not sure if you messed with the tigereye options at all, but I increased dps a bit more by changing it to only recast if dancing steel is up:

actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.dancing_steel.up

or (added above fists of fury in the single target rotation) if we are about to use FoF.

actions.st+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.energizing_brew.up&energy.time_to_max>(4)&buff.tiger_power.remains>(4)&!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up

Eeinx · 03/08/13, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kraun

Not sure if you messed with the tigereye options at all, but I increased dps a bit more by changing it to only recast if dancing steel is up:

actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.dancing_steel.up

or (added above fists of fury in the single target rotation) if we are about to use FoF.

actions.st+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.energizing_brew.up&energy.time_to_max>(4)&buff.tiger_power.remains>(4)&!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up

I'll have Gahhdo look at these today, because I was doing pre-fof thing last nice and noticed a nice gain.

I'd always try to use it before RSK and FoF, but didn't pay attention to dancing steel.

EDIT: I know he's messing around with rune, and theres alot of situational stuff that can be added, but we need to make sure the module is functional for people without specific items/enchants.

Definitely good to run it on your own with custom action lists like that. I'd like to eventually start a BIS thread to pump out as much DPS as possible.

EDITEDIT:

Fixes schedule for this weekend are:
Chi Burst damage
SCK damage

Optionals:
Item dependent rune/dancing steel/etc DPS gaming.

If theres anything else you'd like to see added, let me know as i have some free time for the module this weekend.

EDITEDITEDIT:

On top of that, i'm planning on porting ShockAndAwe over to monk. I'll do a curse release with permission from its author

I'm sure many of our ex-shaman friends will be excited about this.
In this way, we can have a more clutch way of explaining priorities that match the addon similar to how shaman do. (MW5_LB etc.)

Saltycracker · 03/08/13, 11:50 AM

5.2 Notes:

Ascension > Power Strikes. Ascension is still more Chi/min and is looking like more DPS. Power Strikes could be a winner if we cant use FOF on an encounter depending on how you like to play and how movement fights end up

Chi Burst > Chi Wave due to bouncing issues with CW not doing it's full damage potential. Having a level 30 talent in our damage rotation helps a lot with finding your haste sweet spot. Stack haste until you are comfortable doing your rotation with or without the T30 ability and you know where your haste should be

I'm using my spreadsheet stat weights right now. I can't make heads or tails of the SimC results atm.

Haste < 7k - 2.5
Agi - 4.5 (I'm estimating this, I don't actually know)
Mastery - 2.04
Crit - 1.68
Haste > 7k - 1.05

I'm gemming haste up to the soft cap, as haste gems double dip. If that leaves me short of the cap, reforge a little into haste, and then the rest into mastery.

Gear looks troublesome this tier, as it seems like there are too many pieces with hit/exp on them, and it seems like I can't shed enough using the VP trinket or the Jinrok trinket. It could just be AskMrRobot too.

Eeinx · 03/08/13, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I'm using my spreadsheet stat weights right now. I can't make heads or tails of the SimC results atm.

Haste < 7k - 2.5
Agi - 4.5 (I'm estimating this, I don't actually know)
Mastery - 2.04
Crit - 1.68
Haste > 7k - 1.05

Simc should be getting an update today but chi_burst wont be in it yet.

I'm getting varied results at less than 500 ilvl where crit has more value than mastery.

As noted earlier, it's likely that once players get more agi, the more valuable mastery will become.

So definitely varies. :x

Eyedore · 03/08/13, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I'm gemming haste up to the soft cap, as haste gems double dip. If that leaves me short of the cap, reforge a little into haste, and then the rest into mastery.

This may be a simple question, but how does haste from gems double dip? How is 320 haste rating from a gem different than 320 haste rating from a reforge?

1 more question: With the ratings you are using, agility would come 2nd, gem-wise. So if you can possible get enough haste (7k) with reforging, isn't it better to use mostly agility gems, because you can't reforge to agility? (and agility is better than mastery).

Bemxuu · 03/08/13, 7:10 PM

I believe he meant synergy between haste and mastery, otherwise i'm not following it as well.

Babylonius · 03/08/13, 9:05 PM

I have been playing my monk for about two months now (iL498) and I consider myself pretty good at it, I tend to get near ranking or rank on most fights.

I have gotten down to 4800 haste (21% buffed) and rarely energy cap, and using FoF on CD and chi wave to fill gaps I very rarely am starved standing there. I moved most of my haste into Mastery, sitting around 7700 unbuffed (6.16%/TEB stack buffed), and 28.3% crit.

I have a few questions:

Is there really a point to haste after you reach a comfort level without capping/starving energy? There seems to be mixed discussion about it on various sites. Most say to reach a comfort level but some people are testing haste upwards of 8000, so I am confused.
Has anyone done reasonable testing of using TEB frequently and attempting to keep it up near 100% rather than waiting for 10 stacks? The closer you get to 20 stacks/min the less difference there would be in 50% uptime of 100% of the buff vs 100% uptime of 50% of the buff (in perfect conditions). Through my own testing on the dummy, my dps was higher (89k vs 95k self-buffed) keeping the buff up off CD. My rotation was far from perfect and I didnt have the extra 10% haste for more energy regen but I was surprised to find what I got. It was just a short race to 50m damage on a target dummy, but those were my results.
For the RoRO trinket would perhaps a macro like /cast Tigereye Brew /cancelaura (Trinket proc) be sufficient to get the increased mastery for the buff, while cancelling it right away giving us the crit and haste back to maximize that buff? I am unsure if the order of the macro matters as much as I think it does, but hypothetically that could work.

This is my first time posting so I am more then open to discussion and help.