I've been trying a lot of different things, my armory isn't representative of much. I was just experimenting with the crit thing for a boss where I didn't feel like mastery was particularly good (requires burst aoe, so a rune proc at the wrong time is extremely frustrating with a mastery build). Overall the trinket is definitely a significant patchwerk dps increase but it's quite difficult to use effectively in a heroic raid environment. Not just because of player error, but because a trinket proc when you need to do damage right now makes you fairly worthless for 10 seconds. For instance, last night we had the possessed boss on council hit 100 energy while the twisted fate add spawned and I got a trinket proc, taking away all my haste and crit for that key dps window.

Having crit first or just not using the trinket at all is probably best for a fight where you're looking for flexible DPS as opposed to sustained overall DPS, because of that issue alone. But yeah, on a sustained DPS fight (like, say, Maegara), mastery is pretty good as long as you handle the trinket procs well.

So this currently makes our skill priorities as follows:

• Tiger Palm if your Tiger Power buff is about to fall off
• Use Rising Sun Kick if it is off of CD
• Use Chi Wave if it is off of CD
• If you are at <80% health, Expel Harm in order to generate Chi
• Otherwise, if you are >80% health, Jab to generate Chi
• Tigereye Brew in conjunction with major CDs Energizing Brew, Fists of Fury, on-use Trinkets, TimeWarp/Haste), if you have a proc from a trinket, or if at 10 stacks
• Fists of Fury if you (and target) will not be moving in the next 2-3s (depending on your haste) and if you are at <85energy, and there is no Haste (Lust/Heroism/Timewarp) active
• Use Combo Breaker procs (BoK/TP) as they become available. Note that some levels of haste may benefit from delaying Combo Breaker: Tiger Palm; however, this should prodice a very negligible difference.
• Extra Chi should be used on Blackout Kick

This seems very odd and indicates to me how broken WW monks are right now. From what I know about other DPS specs; none of them currently have a level 30 talent that is an active integral part of their "rotation".

I've put quite a bit of thought in this, as I'd like to add a bit about Chi Wave usage and even FoF usage.

The problem is that our haste break points are a bit higher this tier, and there's still quite a bit of discussion on whether or not to use either one. I foresee them being extremely useful (Chi Wave for its weak - but still existent - healing, FoF as it scales with all secondaries now).

Basically, more logs please Once I can scan those, and compare them to Rotund's Spreadsheet and SimC, I'll begin adding those sections to the OP. It's just too early right now to make a judgement call, with not enough live data.

What's broken about that? Monks, Hunters, and Mages all have a whole row of rotational talents. Shamans, Paladins, Shadow Priests, all have 1-3 rotational talents.

There's nothing unusual about talents that are intended to be used rotationaly.

It procs about as much as you'd expect from an RPPM trinket. I got 12 procs on a 9 minute Maegara kill, 8 procs on a 9 minute Tortos kill. You rarely get back to back procs, in the sense that if you hit TEB with 1 second on your Rune proc you won't get another one until your TEB has fallen off. You will sometimes get two fairly close together though, and it tends to proc in bunches, so if you haven't had one for two minutes you'll probably get a second one pretty quickly after a proc.

The frustration for our specific use of the trinket lies in the fact that the procs are unpredictable. You'll run into a situation where Rune hasn't procced for a while, you're at 15 TEB stacks and your second trinket procs. You can either use 10 TEB stacks here and get a nice DPS boost, or you can sit on those stacks waiting for a Rune proc. If you use the stacks and Rune doesn't proc for close to 15 seconds, that's good. If it procs 3 seconds later you pretty much wasted 10 stacks because you're going to do minimal DPS without your haste and crit, and your Rune-boosted TEB will be weaker as well. If you sit on the stacks and it doesn't proc, same thing, and even if it does you still lose all the DPS benefit from your other trinket as you're going to want to pool energy and chi for the 10 second duration of Rune. On the other hand, sometimes you get a perfect 10 stack out of a Rune proc and then you get a second trinket proc straight after.

Also it always procs on the pull, usually with your first attack, and that proc is fairly worthless and probably ends up being a DPS loss most of the time. I generally un-equip and re-equip it before the pull just so I'm likely to get a proc a bit later on when I can actually use it.

Overall it feels to me like a trinket that can provide a massive DPS increase when stars align but in reality it doesn't often work out that well. You lose some of the benefit of your second trinket from Rune procs, you lose your ability to control your DPS to meet the requirements of the fight, and you become very RNG reliant. It's really fun when it lines up correctly though.

edit: And no, the proc can't be cancelled.

Oh, so its a debuff?

Anyway, is there an up to date trinket spreadsheet/ranking (not necessarily including RoR)? I tried the one in the OP (actually downloaded excel specifically for it), only to find out it doesn't have 5.2 trinkets and is password protected so I can't edit them in, either.
(Okay I guess I can use a calculator to the same effect, but it would still be nice to be able to verify my results).
Not really expecting an answer here (I'll just keep looking), but I'm choosing between N Renataki and H bottle and terror, both 2/2.

Fix to Chi Wave has been confirmed

For my personal use, I use my old trinket spreadsheet. It's not very up to date, but I added the normal mode trinkets and VP trinket to it. You can fill in your own stat weights and your haste % to check the ratings.
Because hit and exp will be maxed out anyways, I use my best secondary stat weight for them. You might even consider doing that for haste aswell, Cause it's easy enough to get to your haste 'cap' and after that you don't need more haste (not that it matters too much, there is only 1 trinket with haste and I don't think any ww monk would take it).

Also note that both the exp and the hit trinkets look very good on paper but that only works if you can reforge out of enough exp/hit.
to check maximum amount of exp/hit on gear: cap * 10 / 6 = max (before reforges)
which means: 2550 * 10 / 6 = 4250 (if you allready have 1% this would be 3684)
Example:
I personally have 2552 exp, reforged out of 562 and into 1051: 2552 + 562 - 1051 = 2063 exp
Rentaki's Soul Charm (522) gives me 1467 exp: 2063 + 1467 = 3530
3530 < 4250 so I can actually use all of the exp on that trinket.
This would not be the case for the hit trinket, I would have 835 too much hit if I would equip that.


My own personal order I would use the (nm) trinkets in:
1. RoRO (if fight permits it)
2. Rentaki's Soul Charm (if exp is low enough)
3. 510 Bottle
4. Bad Juju

510 Bottle and Bad Juju are worth almost the same in stats, biggest difference is that the bottle procs almost twice as often. So you could let that influence your decision about which of those two you take.

After doing some testing with Bad Juju I can honestly say I hate this new rppm thing with no icd, its fun that you can get multiple procs in a row, but its annoying as hell for trying to work out the best time to use your cool downs if your used to lining it up with trinkets. Just too much RNG, I would much rather the ICC style, where it procs on 1st hit, then 45 secs later it did the same.

I know right!

Damage Done - 14-03 20:10 - Contingency - World of Logs

Here I get 44% uptime with 2 back to back procs, rocking almost 150k dps (before we wipe)

then on the kill I get 20% uptime with some pretty large gaps between procs.

I love the idea of back to back procs but sometimes it'll proc right after the first proc started.

I see a lot of players who do really great damage switching to mastery in the 6+k while crit is in the 3k range. Simcraft shows crit to still be the superior stat at about 1.5 to 1 crit to mastery. it basically shows the stats should be reveresed. Is this another simcraftism or is it 6 or a half dozen which is better or what is the deal?

Thanks!