[WW] 5.2 -Enter the Fist - Page 7

Netukka · 01/09/13, 7:08 PM

Quick note from the latest hotfix on live.

You can buy another [Eye of the Black Prince] from the VP vendor and if you are using DW Sha-Touched weapons, you CAN put an extra prismatic socket in both weapons and gem them. Can be seen from armory as well.

LightforgedUS · 01/09/13, 8:56 PM

Although we don't have official notes, MMO-Champ has datamined that Tigereye Brew has gone from generating a stack every 2 chi to 3 chi.

This will more than likely slow down our generation to the point where 100% uptime isn't viable. We're going to have to look carefully at it. I can foresee during procs, cooldowns (Mainly Lust/Heroism) being the viable times for non-10 stack brew, especially at higher and higher mastery levels.

• promdates · 01/09/13, 10:50 PM

Updated the trinket spreadsheet. I apparently forgot to put the Landslide 5.1 valor trinkets upgraded options in there. Current version is 1.02, check signature for the updated one.

As soon as we get more information on any PTR options, I'll be sure to add those asap.

tastysnack · 01/09/13, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by promdates

Updated the trinket spreadsheet. I apparently forgot to put the Landslide 5.1 valor trinkets upgraded options in there. Current version is 1.02, check signature for the updated one.

As soon as we get more information on any PTR options, I'll be sure to add those asap.

Thanks Prom. The link in the guide just points to the front page, so should still link up.

Also, those set bonuses look pretty neat - not sure how I feel about 2p (seems a bit underwhelming), but 3p seems quite strong - even if the datamined nerf to TeB generation is true.

Vishiz · 01/10/13, 12:22 AM

Im not sure whats up with Storm Earth and Fire. But im pulling about 220k sustained dps on the dummies now with 2 adds out. Likely not getting the damage reduction that they should be.

The 3 chi per stack is correct.

gahddo · 01/10/13, 12:39 AM

Preliminary assessment of SEF:
The spirit is intelligent, meaning if you are within melee range of the spirit, it only copies melee/tiger strikes, but if you go out of melee range of the spirit, it copies everything. The 40%/60% damage reduction on the spirits is currently working, however the damage reduction isn't applying to the monk currently. This is why you're seeing such inflated dps numbers. The spirit does 60% of your damage, and you don't lose any, so you're doing 160% dps.

Known bugs:
-Monk's damage isn't reduced when buff is up
-If you're within melee range of the spirit, it will still copy FoF, clearly unintended as it copies nothing else but melee/TS.

• promdates · 01/10/13, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by gahddo

Preliminary assessment of SEF:
The spirit is intelligent, meaning if you are within melee range of the spirit, it only copies melee/tiger strikes, but if you go out of melee range of the spirit, it copies everything. The 40%/60% damage reduction on the spirits is currently working, however the damage reduction isn't applying to the monk currently. This is why you're seeing such inflated dps numbers. The spirit does 60% of your damage, and you don't lose any, so you're doing 160% dps.

Known bugs:
-Monk's damage isn't reduced when buff is up
-If you're within melee range of the spirit, it will still copy FoF, clearly unintended as it copies nothing else but melee/TS.

Can you do some more testing and figure out the rough distance before it copies everything?

Stu · 01/10/13, 1:18 AM

From what i could tell on the amount of time i was able to stay on, it's regardless of distance, but it's related to target. If you are on one of your copy's targets it will only auto attack/TS. However it will continue to copy AoE abilities, FoF and SCK.

Tsuki Ko · 01/10/13, 1:19 AM

It's target-based, not distance. With the exception of FoF and damaging talents (T30, RJW), single-target specials cast on the same target your spirit is "fixated on" are not replicated. Tested with Jab, BoK, TP, SFB and CJL on Darnassus targets that are close enough to be in cleaving range.

Also, the spirits gain their own TP buff when they actually cast TP, although it doesn't seem to affect their damage.

Ruga · 01/10/13, 4:59 AM

Our Tier 15 set boni are somewhat of a letdown.

Item - Monk T15 Windwalker 2P Bonus (New) Your Chi generating abilities have a 15% chance to generate an Energy Sphere, which will grant you 10 Energy when you walk through it .
Item - Monk T15 Windwalker 4P Bonus (New) You have a 10% chance to gain an additional charge of Tigereye Brew every time you gain a charge of Tigereye Brew.

Source

I don't think we need more energy then we already regen/have. As even now I sometimes struggle to not energy cap even with relatively low haste values.

The 4set might be desirable though.

Eyedore · 01/10/13, 5:48 AM

2P Bonus:

having a 15% chance that Jab or Expel Harm generate a 10 energy orb means they theoretically cost 1.5 less energy on average.
Just to get a impression I ran simc 510-9 with the hc dw profile. I know this is not correct as there are a lot of changes in 5.2, but at least it's something.
In an average 450 sec fight simc does 155 Jabs, they all cost 1.5 less energy meaning you save 1.5 * 155 = 232.5 energy ~ 5.8 Jabs ~ 5.8 Blackout Kicks
Jab: 5.8 * 22895 = 132791
BoK: 5.8 * 130032 = 754186
Total: 886977
886977 / 450 = 1971 dps

simc shows us doing 129113 dps
1971 / 129113 = 0.0153 = 1.53% damage increase

This is if you can perfectly use all the energy orbs you create and you actually have time to do those extra Jabs and Bok's.

4P Bonus:

Let's say you can generate 45 chi per minute, with 1 stack of TEB per 3 chi, that makes 15 stacks of TEB.
10% chance to generate an additional TEB stack means 1.5 extra TEB stacks per minute.
It's only up for 15 out of 60 seconds so 1.5 / 4 = 0.375 TEB stacks on average through the whole fight.
Base mastery gives 1.6% damage per stack on top of the 1% from the ability for a total of 2.6% damage per stack.

Low mastery (1500):
1500 + 3000 (raidbuff) = 4500
(4500 / 429) * 0.2 = 2.10
2.6 + 2.1 = 4.7% extra damage per stack
0.375 * 4.7 = 1.76 % extra damage

High mastery (7000):
7000 + 3000 (raidbuff) = 10000
(10000 / 429) * 0.2 = 4.66
2.6 + 4.66 = 7.26% extra damage per stack
0.375 * 7.26 = 2.72 % extra damage

Feel free to check for any mistakes I might have made.

Eyedore · 01/10/13, 7:16 AM

Because we have so many changes to our energy regen and usage I made a new energy spreadsheet for patch 5.2:

monk_energy_5.2.xlsx

with combo breaker (the old mastery) at a fixed 12% and without the T14 2p and 4p bonus we have alot more 'free time' resulting in less active time per minute.
atm with my current character (4895 haste, 1577 mastery) and the old energy spreadsheet I have 58.82 seconds of active time per minute.
With the new energy spreadsheet you can see that even with 10k haste the active time is 'only' 56.48 sec/min

It could be that with the latest ptr changes of 1 TEB stack per 3 chi haste will be our best stat again. If so, we might be looking at reforging to full haste, not leaving much room for mastery anymore.
This is just speculation of course.

Crevan · 01/10/13, 7:24 AM

Technically speaking, then 2p bonus is not a cost reduction, but a refund that you have to activate manually to benefit from. While this doesn't change the math behind its value, it does mean that a player will have to constantly be on the lookout for orbs spawning, which will reduce its effectiveness somewhat (sometimes you can't move, sometimes there's enough players and spell effects piled on top of you that you might not notice the sphere, etc.).

What it comes down to for me personally is enough energy refunded for extra 0.79 jabs per minute (which also lead to more combo breaker procs and benefits proc/enchant uptime ever so slightly), which is 5.9 extra jabs over 450 seconds - pretty much what you got there.

EDIT: The spirits disappear when you move more than 90 yards away from them. It also seems that the only other way to get rid of them is to click off the buff you get. They have 10% of your max hp when targeted, but the tooltip will show the monk itself. They do not seem to take aoe damage from NPCs; haven't tested with players yet, but I guess they behave like totems. Unlike Xuen, the spirits do not generate personal threat. Putting a spirit on an out-of-combat target is similar to body-pulling, or taunting that target but without the fixate part.

tastysnack · 01/10/13, 12:38 PM

Correct - as 2Piece is a refund, it does (in theory) make mastery stronger than haste. While haste and mastery have a strong interaction, I feel 2P will end up being a waste at higher values of haste. More mastery, however, will make both 2 and 4p a pretty significant increase in damage. Overall, I'm more excited about this set bonus than T14's (though, T14's was amazing prior to the EB change, so I'll give it that).

I also have to disagree with you a little bit, Eyedore. Yes, it kind of depresses me that it's back up to 3 Chi, but that still means 1 single FoF will generate a stack, as will 1 TP and 1 BoK. It's a bit of a nerf, but especially considering T15's 4p, I think mastery ought to remain powerful. Will need to run more simulations once they've been updated. Also, where are you getting 129K? What version of simc? All of the data I've seen from 5.2 have pointed us at much, much higher DPS values.

Added T15 into draft, along with my own editorial perceptions.

Edited: Wanted to point out, too, that EH and Jab aren't our only sources of Chi. We ought to also receive the refund from SCK on 3+ targets, though I personally have never had energy issues in AOE times. Also, are the energy spheres only ours? It could provide decent interesting utility to, say, a Brewmaster (though, my BrM spec never has energy issues).

Edit 2: Now that I think about it, 2P will be more of kind of a balancing act. While on one hand it means that high energy regen is not desirable, we would still need faster jabs/EH/SCK in order to actually generate them. Hm.

Professor Hurt · 01/10/13, 1:10 PM

Some questions about SEF:

Assuming the tooltip is correct (and that I'm reading it correctly) it's a 20% DPS increase, right? So we go from 100% DPS to 120% DPS split between all involved parties (either 60/60 with one summon, or 40/40/40 with two)? If so, why would we ever NOT have this up?

Are the summons controllable, such that you can tell them to attack a different target after the initial choice has been made? If not, I'm guessing this would be the only time/reason we'd ever hit the SEF button again (to unsummon/resummon).