[WW] 5.3 -Enter the Fist - Page 9

Bemxuu · 01/12/13, 5:32 AM

I thought TEB (both stacks and the buff) were nullified when you enter boss fight. Am I missing something?

Eyedore · 01/12/13, 6:22 AM

The stacks get reset, the buff doesn't. So if you hit your TEB button just before entering combat you can have the buff on you for the start of the fight.
When standing before the boss out of combat, you can keep the stacks up by using expel harm and then chi wave.

I'm wondering now if you can do the same with using Fists of Fury, because that is also a chi spender that is usable out of combat without a target.

edit: just tested this and you can indeed maintain and even generate TEB stacks with EH -> FoF, it takes long though, because you need to do 2 EH after which you have 3 chi to use a FoF (because chi degenerates out of combat). It takes 30 seconds to spend 3 chi this way.

Originally Posted by Bemxuu

I thought TEB (both stacks and the buff) were nullified when you enter boss fight. Am I missing something?

I actually hope they will also nullify the buff on entering a boss fight, that way I don't have to feel obliged to go through this hassle of building/keeping stacks..

Killu · 01/12/13, 7:35 AM

You could spam unglyphed spinning fire blossom to maintain chi while out of combat (stand towards an obstacle so you don't hit something by accident).

But as Eyedore stated, it would be adequate to reset the buff and even chi on entering a boss encounter, since the maintenance between and on pulls is quite taxing.

Saltycracker · 01/12/13, 8:01 AM

Originally Posted by Killu

You could spam unglyphed spinning fire blossom to maintain chi while out of combat (stand towards an obstacle so you don't hit something by accident).

But as Eyedore stated, it would be adequate to reset the buff and even chi on entering a boss encounter, since the maintenance between and on pulls is quite taxing.

If you change talents/glyphs it will reset your TeB stacks, so that would not work.

Crevan · 01/12/13, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

Also, can anyone check and see if their mastery rating coefficient is the same from live to PTR? I'm seeing a coefficient of 3000 mastery/% right now on the PTR.

I might be misunderstanding your point here, but 3000 mastery rating per 1% is what it should be. Six hundred mastery rating is generally one "point" of mastery, and it gives 0.2% increase per stack of bottled fury, so 3000 rating will provide 5 times that, or 1%.

Meso · 01/12/13, 1:21 PM

Did anyone else get a chance to test SEF during last nights ptr raids? My own results were very disappointing, so I'm kind of hoping I did something wrong. Every pull where I popped the spirits my dps would decrease by about 30-40% compared to the pulls where I didnt use them at all.

I noticed in skada that they didnt copy all of my attacks. For example, if I used 10 rising sun kicks my spirits would only use 2-3 each. The only theory I have so far is that they are very vulnerable to movement so if their target is moving they will be out of range, and therefor unable to use their attacks, for most of the time.

Just wondering if anyone else had similar results?

Eeinx · 01/12/13, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Meso

Did anyone else get a chance to test SEF during last nights ptr raids? My own results were very disappointing, so I'm kind of hoping I did something wrong. Every pull where I popped the spirits my dps would decrease by about 30-40% compared to the pulls where I didnt use them at all.

I noticed in skada that they didnt copy all of my attacks. For example, if I used 10 rising sun kicks my spirits would only use 2-3 each. The only theory I have so far is that they are very vulnerable to movement so if their target is moving they will be out of range, and therefor unable to use their attacks, for most of the time.

Just wondering if anyone else had similar results?

Blizzard admits this is very buggy; If you haven't already I'd definitely recommend opening a bug report in the PTR forums if you haven't!

Crevan · 01/12/13, 4:36 PM

Analyze - 12-01 01:45 - Crevan's personal - World of Logs
This is the log from the one attempt at the Council where I managed to make WoL live reporting work (Ins being me). I had the storm spirit summoned almost from the start, and the abilities we did are pretty much what you'd expect:

RSK - 20 me, 19 spirit;
BoK - 40 me, 40 spirit:
FoF - 38 me, 30 spirit;
Jab - 61 me, 57 spirit;
CW - 28 me, 28 spirit;
TP - 20 me, 19 spirit.

Seems pretty close. Given how hectic the fight is, I'd expect some of your abilities not to be copied, but most should. Putting the spirit on Kazra'jin the Blanka impersonator might not be the best idea due to him rolling all over the place, which might lead to some of your hits not being copied. However, we'll need to check if putting a spirit on him while he is possessed will make the spirit or you take reflected damage. If the damage the spirit does is not reflected back to it or you, then it will be a good idea to keep one on him.

Moozhe · 01/12/13, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

If you change talents/glyphs it will reset your TeB stacks, so that would not work.

Why would you need to change talents or glyphs? You could just permanently not use the Spinning Fire Blossom glyph.

Using Expel Harm and Fists of Fury to build chi, with Spinning Fire Blossom spam to prevent chi decay, will be the best way to build Tigereye Brew stacks post patch.

Saltycracker · 01/13/13, 2:44 AM

It looks like they have fixed the CB:Tiger Palm bug, and it is now correctly stacking TEB.

urotas · 01/13/13, 7:27 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

It looks like they have fixed the CB:Tiger Palm bug, and it is now correctly stacking TEB.

CB: Tiger Palm still bugs Tigereye Brew generation for all your other moves. On the PTR with CB: Tiger Palm active, it takes 3 Blackout Kicks, RSK or FoF to get 1 TEB charge. On live it takes 4 Blackout Kicks for one charge if you have CB: Tiger Palm active.

So they only fixed the Tiger Palm itself generating TEB charges. They didn't fix having the CB buff reducing TEB generation from all other abilities.

LightforgedUS · 01/14/13, 12:30 AM

I did some math tonight on our 5.2 mastery.

It will take 25200 Mastery Rating to reach the 100% damage increase threshold for 10 stacks of Tigereye Brew, and an additional 30000 Mastery Rating for each additional 100% increase (which is unattainable).

In full heroic upgraded Tier 14 gear selected for Mastery, it can reach a little north of 11000 Mastery Rating, which becomes somewhere in the ballpark of a 63% damage increase for 10 stacks.

Although we don't know the exact item level yet (If I were a betting man, I would hazard a guess that Throne LFR gear is 496), we might be able to reach our 100% damage threshold in heroic tier 16, if not 15. That is a stupid amount of scaling, considering we are able to a achieve a significant uptime (~33%).

If you start out at 20 stacks, it's entirely possible to get 45 seconds of 60%+ damage increase, with an additional 15 seconds of about half of that.

**OPINION**
I'm honestly finding a haste area I'm comfortable with and not going over that and stacking Mastery at this point. This near flat damage increase is too hard to ignore, especially with the potential to be A) On demand and B) Last longer than a Lust if stacked correctly.

Crevan · 01/14/13, 4:09 AM

Originally Posted by LightforgedUS

Although we don't know the exact item level yet (If I were a betting man, I would hazard a guess that Throne LFR gear is 496)

If the developers continue with their usual ilvl formula (and I see no reason why they wouldn't), then the next tier's normal mode gear will be 6 ilvls above the previous heroic one. So, assuming HoF and Terrace are considered the "previous tier", we're looking at ilvl 502 for LFR, 515 for normal modes and 528 for heroic. If MSV is considered the previous one (which I find unlikely), it would be 495, 508 and 521.

Regarding your opinion about stat priorities - most windwalkers are already going with the opinion that crit is generally better than haste, even if simc says otherwise. So I think you won't be the only one.

Littch · 01/14/13, 8:10 AM

The way is see it will be, as mentioned before, we drop FoF from the rotation due to it burns effectively 1 chi per sec (mines over 3 secs atm with 4.3k haste) then stack haste up to the point we don't run out of energy, then go full mastery. i could not ever see myself stacking haste up to 8-9k before hand with accession, the only way for that to be even remotely viable is a pure patchwerk fight. Im guessing around 5.5k - 6k haste is the cap we should aim for.

Haven't done any testing on PTR yet, this is purely guess work.

Saltycracker · 01/14/13, 11:54 AM

It looks like the change to generating TEB scacks pulled the strength of mastery back a little bit.

Right now I'm seeing Agi > Haste (to some cap) > Mastery > Crit. You start to GCD cap around 35% raid buffed haste which is about 10.5k haste, so shooting for 9k haste is probably a good idea, unless you are a robot.

From my spreadsheet, the strength of mastery depends on how many TEB stacks you are generating, which is a function of haste:

Mastery % DPS gain = (TEB per min/4) * (.01*Mastery/3000)

TEB per min = ((11.5 *haste*60/40)*2 + (CB:BOK)*2 + (CB:TP))/3

TEB per min = ((11.5 *haste*60/40)*(2+2*.12*1*.12))/3

TEB/min = (1+haste%) * 13.57

Also, when calculating the value of haste, you should add a mastery component as well, since more haste = more TEB stacks.

	DPS gain in 1% Stat gain:	Rating Normalized:
Mastery	4.57%	0.65%
Crit	0.77%	0.54%
Haste	0.75%	0.75%